ahh genetics...input please?

[PinkFox]

so i have a black otter rex buck...i have a 5 gen ped on him thats ALL black otters
and i bred him to my broken Opal rex Doe...i only have 3 gents on her momma and 2 gens on her daddy but shes got black blue, and opal going throguh what i do have.

she had a litter fo 6...i was especting mostly broken castors...

i GOT

2 broken castors
1 broken "black" (im assuming broken black otter)
1 black otter
1 self opal
1 broken opal
(im hoping either of the opals are female)

so if im doing my genetics right (trying to get the hang of it but its a combination of math and french to me lol) this means somewhere along the line my buck must have dilute and carries for dilute..right?

 

[crazyturkeydesigns]

so i have a black otter rex buck...i have a 5 gen ped on him thats ALL black otters
and i bred him to my broken Opal rex Doe...i only have 3 gents on her momma and 2 gens on her daddy but shes got black blue, and opal going throguh what i do have.

she had a litter fo 6...i was especting mostly broken castors...

i GOT

2 broken castors
1 broken "black" (im assuming broken black otter)
1 black otter
1 self opal
1 broken opal
(im hoping either of the opals are female)

so if im doing my genetics right (trying to get the hang of it but its a combination of math and french to me lol) this means somewhere along the line my buck must have dilute and carries for dilute..right?

If you got anything other than agouti (castor, opal, etc), your doe carries a (self). If you are sure it's a black and not a black otter, your buck is ata (otter/tan hiding self).
So for the black otter buck you're probably looking at something like this: at_B_C_Dd_E_ (underscores are unknowns...opal is a blue agouti so he must carry dilute). You probably don't see anything but black otter on his pedigree because none of the other genes had a chance to dominate AND you don't know what color his parents have thrown either.
Your doe would be something like: AaB_C_dd_E_ (hiding self because the otter gene -at- had a chance to dominate...the A series, in order of dominance, goes A (agouti), at (tan/otter/martin), and a (self)).
What do you mean by a "self" opal? Opal is agouti, can't be anything else. Are you thinking of a blue otter maybe?
Hope that helped! It's always fun getting a litter of surprises!

 

[PinkFox]

i mean no white..."1" color rather than broken. sorry still comming to terms with the descriptions. lol. i know it would realy just be opal...but writing broken opal and then just opal for the other makes my brain angry for some reason.
its very definatly an agouti the under color is a light orangy tan but HEAVILY silver/blue over the top, you can see the lighter color under on the entire body but that blue overlay is very prominent too.

as the fur is starting to come in (there only a week) im fairly certain that the solid black kit is an otter, it has a lighter ring around the eyes and neer the mouth thats not very visible in person but clearer in pictures. with the broken black one its harder to tell, i think i see a faint light ring around the eye, but its a broken so the markings arnt as clear.

i was mostly suprised at the 2 opal babies lol, wasnt expecting the dilute to show up as it didnt on any of the calculators i played with, but then i didnt account for him carrying the dilute.
i do know his mother has always had all black otter litters, but has only been exposed to black otter bucks, the breeder was breeding specifically for black otters so was breeding only black otter to black otter. im actually realy happy with him, i think hes gorgeous, but realy wanted more blue/opal in the rabbitry so have been debating getting a second buck.
i probbaly should anyway so ive got a back up...but bonus that he throws the dilutes! *woot*

 

[crazyturkeydesigns]

Ah, I didn't think about it being a solid!! That actually sort of makes sense!
Anyway, in lines that are predominantly one color (like all black otters), recessives don't usually pop out. Throw in a new color and tada, you find them! It's a pretty cool thing if it's something you want, like a buck carrying dilute.
Good luck! Hope your babies are doing well

 

[PinkFox]

Well now theyve got me wondering if there chinchilla instead of Opal...

(ther not even 2 weeks yet lol) when they were born and up untill about yesterday they both had a distinct light orange/fawn undercolor with a light blue overcast.
But yesterday i noticed that they seemed "lighter" and way too light to be either blue or opal, they look more silver blue than a true blue...
So is chinchilla even possible with a black otter buck and a broken opal doe?! obviously it must be but none of the calculaters ive played with have ever listed t as a possible outcome...
and ive never seen such light chinchilla colored kits
they both have black lacing on the edges of their ears, and the "solid" colored kit does have some black ticking.

heres some pics.

you can see the 2 in question on the right side of the pic...

the broken baby, whos lighter than the other one,

and the solid baby

and a semi closer pic of the fur...sorry my camera doesnt do well with closeups so this is as good as i could get wihtout it going fuzzy

from what i can tell, base color is dark, then a Wide Band of White, the bun a wide band of a light blue/silver hairs. on the solid colored kit the shaft is tipped in a very tiny band of black with solid black hairs sparsely mingled too. on the broken kit only the fur between ears and down the spine have the black tipping, the fur on the sides is not tipped in black.
Belly is white.

so yeah im thinking chin and am now very confused again LOL!

Obviously
buck is: at_B_C_D_E_enen
Doe is: A_B_C_ddE_Enen

other kits in the litter are
1 Black otter
1 Broken black otter
2 Broken Castor

 

[crazyturkeydesigns]

THEY ARE SO CUTE. I have serious baby envy right now!!! Anyway lol

I think the only thing that would make 2 chins pop up out of a seemingly "chin-less" pedigree on both sides is that at least one carries it. It could be that one of the rabbits carries "c..." which takes all pigment away from the rabbit and is the least dominant gene in the C series. So if just one rabbit has cchd (chin dark) and the other has a c, it would make a chin! The 2 chinchilla genes (light & dark) are both recessive and recessive genes can hide for many many generations. I had a chin pop up out of a chocolate otter and b/o tri cross. I was like...where did you come from....lol. They are cute little guys, looking like they will have good color. I LOVE broken chins...so pretty!!!
Here's a little info about chins...it's about mini rexes, but the genetics are the same Chinchilla genetics
Congrats on your babies!!

 

[PinkFox]

thank you, im realy impressed wiht this girl as a momma and that not broken kit is a JUMBO baby...its always been large and looks like a little sausage next to the others.
So from those pics, not great i know would you say they would be light chin, or dark chin? or possibly blue chin? or will i have to wait a few more weeks...
i wasnt expecting chin at all and must admit not a clue how to distingush between the different types of chin colors.

Gonna run off and check that link thanks

this females previous litter was to a broken black and produced broken black, broken "blue" (not sure if they were blue or opal as this was with her previous owner) and 2 "white" (cant be sure if they were REW or simply just Charlies from a broken to a broken. Bluebell isnt the heaviest marked broken in the world and from what the lady told me the buck was "lightly marked" too. so i assume the "white" were just charlies...
this male hasne been bred before and as i said its always been otter to otter in his bloodlines so its kinda fun to see whats popping up. got him bred to a black doe sue next week, expecting all black otters and blacks form that but hey, who knows LOL!

 

[crazyturkeydesigns]

I'm not really familiar with the C series, so I'm not sure what's dominant...I do know there's some incomplete dominance going on the series, but that's all I recall off the top of my head lol. I think there's a fair amount of info out there on it too.
I think it sort of helps to think of chins as other agouti colors...like castor, choc agouti, opal, etc. because all the cchd/cchl is take the orange/red color out. So you can have regular (or black) chins, blue chins, choc chins...etc. Those two both look like regular chins, though. It's such a pretty color! They have awesome patterns too.
Maybe talk to the breeder of the doe and see what the doe's ancestors threw if possible. It helps a lot to see littermates/relatives...you get a much better idea of what both parents carry and what the offspring may carry. It could be that the doe has the c gene and the buck carries chinchilla...it would have almost never had the chance to dominate in his case, so there's very little chance they would know it's there. If she's thrown REW before (and you could be right, could just be a charlie or really lightly marked broken), she def carries the c gene.
LOL!! Every litter has a little sausage baby!! I just loved that analogy!!

 

[PinkFox]

thanks, thats a huge help, its difficult to tell from the online pics sometimes!

coolness...the entire litter was starting to stretch thier legs today lol. i checked on them and they all started marching about.
momma came over for ear scritches and just gave me this look like "help" LOL. shes doing such a good job though.

 

[PinkFox]

well...same black otter buck to a broken black doe has resuleted in 9 healthy kits 4 of which seem to be REW...
blink blink...

so right now im thinking because REW is a cc gene (both parents have to carry right?) that the buck carries for REW and the opal doe is the one that added the chinchilla...and my black doe obviously carries REW too...

so im thinking the Bucks code looks something like this:
at_ B_ Cc D_ E_ enen

the broken opal doe mabe something like this:
A_ B_ Cc(chd) dd E_ Enen

and the black doe something along these lines
aa B_ Cc E_ enen

does that look about right for the results ive seen and can i fill anythign else in there from what ive got so far
I do know that the black doe was from a black self and a broken black

Buck to opal doe =
2 broken castor
1 broken black otter
1 broken chin
1 chin
1 black otter

Buck to black doe =
4 "pink" (REW)
5 "black" (born today so cant yet tell if otters as i just wanted to get a head count without stressing her too much as this is her first litter)