Behavior Question

[Anirtj]

We are new to goats. We have 3 does: Smores (3 yr), Bubbles (1 yr) & Suzi Q (1 yr). We got them at the same time from the same place. It appeared right away Smores was dominant as the other two hid behind her. Bubbles is the most timid and seems lowest ranked. Suzi Q is tenacious. Smores has started butting Bubbles more and more away from food situations. Butts her away from the hay or keeps her back and butts her if she comes forward for treats. She doesn't have a problem with Suzi Q at all. Why would she pick on the most skittish doe?

 

[M.L. McKnight]

Goats will do this just to ensure that the pecking order is well established. I separate my nannies (yes I call them nannies even though to some its a 'newbie' word) from the rest of the herd at kidding time and keep them away until the babies are about a month old. When I put them back in the herd there is always a lot of butting. I also have one doe that will butt the others JUST BECAUSE the sun is shining! She is a nice goat but will go up to another one and WHACK! then just start grazing.
I imagine that age is a very big factor in your situation with your goats too. I would take Smores out of the pen at feeding time for awhile. Feed the other two together in the pen and after everyone has eaten, put them back together.
Although the practice may be frowned upon by some, I have been known to hang out around the goat pen and shoot excessive butters with a water gun. You'd be amazed at how a few quick squirts calms them right down.

 

[Anirtj]

But why would she butt just the one and not both? The one she butts isn't a threat as she is timid. She leaves the pushy one alone.

 

[M.L. McKnight]

Well, the timid one won't fight back and isn't a challenge. Might make her look tough to the other one.

 

[elevan]

Sometimes it's just a personality thing. You know how sometimes the first impression you get of someone is a bad one? Well her impression of the timid doe is a bad one and she wants her to know her place...or she just plain doesn't like her. It happens, there are personality conflicts in the animal world the same as there are personality conflicts in the human world.

 

[goats&moregoats]

Not to worry, as long as they are not severely hurting each other, they will get it figured out. I have an 8 yr old that does the same thing to my 2yr old and her 13 week old babies. I watch for a while every day and speak to Hazel when she does this, but she isn't overly rough. Just letting the other three know she is boss. This position is new to her, we lost our matriarch in early march and Hazel took over.

 

[madcow]

The dominant doe will always assert her position at every opportunity. It may take several weeks or even months for everything to settle down where they each know how far to push each other and what the limits are. They are much like children in that they will test the limits of the herd queen (MOM!) from every angle they find, and they test for consistency of reaction and this helps them learn their position. They will learn how far to push, and when to push and when not to. They must do it in order to feel secure in their position in the herd. The skittish one might have had her mother or another doe protect her in the herd she came from and moving them from that herd to this new one might have taken that away from her and the herd queen knows that and is setting the limits for her. You basically created a new herd with the move and they are sorting it all out. The herd queen is also letting them know who's boss, as her role changed with the move to this new group too. No need to worry unless you see she's getting physically hurt. There's nothing wrong with babying her for a while with separate feeding or hand feeding to ensure she's getting her fair share. It tells the herd you are dominant over the herd queen, which is a good thing and the way it should be.

 

[Melanie]

Herd dynamics are quite interesting to me. I started with 2 young wethered goats and one was much punier then the other and the bigger boy was the boss. Then we got 3 bred does from the same farm and they had to hash it out for who would be the new herd queen. It ended up being the smallest doe, but she loves to bite the others to get her way. The 2 boys never really messed with the does they seemed to have their own pecking order between each other. We brought in a young doeling and she was very skittish but she got on well with the boys and they seemed to take up for her when the other 3 does would try to get ugly. Our herd expanded by 5 when my does kidded and as the kids grew the dynamics in the herd changed again one of the bucklings was very dominant. One of my wethered boys began to get very aggresive with some of the kids. We decided to sale the 2 wethered boys. Everyone was so much happier even the skittish one started to stick up for herself. Then just recently we decided to get our first full size goat and her 2 week old twins. My current herd queen, the biter will not even try to keep her status, I really do not blame her she is 50 lbs and Eva is probably pushing 150 lbs. Eva has never been ugly to any of them and does not appear to have a dominant personality at all but she appears to be the new herd queen because they all just run from her. All my goats are fed separate and I have several hay feeders spread out so my less dominate goats can still get hay. All these changes in my herd took place in less then a year, I have only had goats since last September. They are very fun and interesting!!!

 

[madcow]

Herd dynamics are quite interesting to me. .....They are very fun and interesting!!!

I agree Melanie! Just this morning our newest goat, Nell, a pregnant LaMancha doe, whom we got about a month ago, was throwing a fit when I went out to feed all of them. I was afraid she was in labor, but that wasn't the problem. Even though she is very new to the herd she was upset because our 3-month-old doeling had gotten her head stuck in the fence and couldn't get it out. She got herself in that situation because she was trying to get to her mother to nurse, whom I had separated into a different adjoining pen so I could milk her this morning. Her mother, who is the herd queen, was casually lying up on the stanchion not the least bit upset about the situation and the rest of the herd didn't seem upset, which I found a bit odd. Normally when one of the herd is in any kind of trouble or distress the others get upset, but not this time. This time it was only the newcomer who was sounding an alarm. Obviously Nell sees them as her new herd and gets concerned about them when things aren't right. And Baby Girl has to realize that she's growing and that her head with short horns is getting too big to put through 4-inch openings in the fence and still be able to get it back out, but she probably won't. I know I will have to make some changes to the bottom of the fence so she can't get her head through it any more, because she will most certainly do it again and again until I make it so she can't.

Sorry for the thread hijack, but herd behavior is something I'm constantly trying to figure out to keep them happy and healthy, especially when there are elements that change within the herd.