I want to know if its absolutely necessary to have epi on hand when giving the CDT shot....I know there is a chance that the goat can have a deadly reaction to CDT but epi is not easy to get. So how often does it happen? Or where do most of you get epi?
CD/T injection ?
- Thread starter cadman68
- Start date
()relics
Overrun with beasties
The chance of a reaction to CD/T severe enough to cause anaphylaxis is slim. I have never seen nor can I ever remember hearing of a goat having that violent of a reaction to this particular vaccine, BUT the possiblity does exsist. The vaccine should be given subcutaneously to futher lessen the potential of a reaction, IM shots are the most prone to cause anaphylaxis.
Epinephrine should be kept in your emergency first aid kit should the need for it ever arise, if you need it there will not be time to try to locate a supply of it. I get it from my vet...He prescribes it and has instructed me in its use, which fulfills his end of the deal. I have it on hand but have never used it for any of my goats, have used it for pigs...I have heard that some vets are reluctant to prescribe it because of its misuse and abuse.
Epinephrine should be kept in your emergency first aid kit should the need for it ever arise, if you need it there will not be time to try to locate a supply of it. I get it from my vet...He prescribes it and has instructed me in its use, which fulfills his end of the deal. I have it on hand but have never used it for any of my goats, have used it for pigs...I have heard that some vets are reluctant to prescribe it because of its misuse and abuse.
I thought at one point that I'd seen a little anaphylaxis in one of ours, but looking back, I think it was actually a case of choke that looked strikingly like anaphylaxis.
I have, however, heard two seperate first-hand tales of goats dying from anaphylaxis.. That is to say, two people have told me that their goats -- not their neighbor's ex-roommate's uncle's son-in-law's cousin's goats...their goats -- collapsed and died from anaphylaxis after C/D-T injections.
It happens. It's not a myth.
So, is Epi necessary? Well, no...not unless you have a reaction. But you already knew that, of course.. If you're lucky -- and you probably don't even have to be all that lucky, as reactions are pretty doggone rare -- you'll never need it. But if you're unlucky and need it, and don't have it, you're screwed. And actually, if you're unlucky, need it, have it, but don't have it drawn up and ready to stick right away...it still might not do you any good and you're still screwed.
I have some. I got it from my vet(s), with whom I have a very, very, very good working relationship. They trust me, which is the key to the whole deal. It's kinda like.....if your vet wouldn't stop and have an honest to goodness conversation with you in Wal-Mart, good luck getting Epi.
The hell of it is that Epi is cheap -- $10 for a nice 20ml, shelf-stable vial. I carry the vial and a sterile 2.5ml syringe tipped w/ a 25ga x5/8" needle with me when I'm giving C/D-T or any kind of biological. I've never needed it. Will I be quick enough on the draw if ever I do need it? Dunno...hope so, but maybe not.
Bottom line, I guess, is that if you can get it, get it. If you absolutely can't get it and you're willing to roll the dice, considering the possibility of anaphylaxis an acceptable risk...roll on. Lots of people do just that, and with the way things are today, I wouldn't for one second call it irresponsible or anything like that to do so. Afterall, neither you nor I created the meth problem that's created the Epi problem, right? We're just living within the framework created by everyone else's screw ups, unfortunately..
Frankly -- and I'm speculating here, but -- I'd say most people giving C/D-T shots these days do so without access to Epi.. That's just the way it is.
But...if you can get it, get it.
I have, however, heard two seperate first-hand tales of goats dying from anaphylaxis.. That is to say, two people have told me that their goats -- not their neighbor's ex-roommate's uncle's son-in-law's cousin's goats...their goats -- collapsed and died from anaphylaxis after C/D-T injections.
It happens. It's not a myth.
So, is Epi necessary? Well, no...not unless you have a reaction. But you already knew that, of course.. If you're lucky -- and you probably don't even have to be all that lucky, as reactions are pretty doggone rare -- you'll never need it. But if you're unlucky and need it, and don't have it, you're screwed. And actually, if you're unlucky, need it, have it, but don't have it drawn up and ready to stick right away...it still might not do you any good and you're still screwed.
I have some. I got it from my vet(s), with whom I have a very, very, very good working relationship. They trust me, which is the key to the whole deal. It's kinda like.....if your vet wouldn't stop and have an honest to goodness conversation with you in Wal-Mart, good luck getting Epi.
The hell of it is that Epi is cheap -- $10 for a nice 20ml, shelf-stable vial. I carry the vial and a sterile 2.5ml syringe tipped w/ a 25ga x5/8" needle with me when I'm giving C/D-T or any kind of biological. I've never needed it. Will I be quick enough on the draw if ever I do need it? Dunno...hope so, but maybe not.
Bottom line, I guess, is that if you can get it, get it. If you absolutely can't get it and you're willing to roll the dice, considering the possibility of anaphylaxis an acceptable risk...roll on. Lots of people do just that, and with the way things are today, I wouldn't for one second call it irresponsible or anything like that to do so. Afterall, neither you nor I created the meth problem that's created the Epi problem, right? We're just living within the framework created by everyone else's screw ups, unfortunately..
Frankly -- and I'm speculating here, but -- I'd say most people giving C/D-T shots these days do so without access to Epi.. That's just the way it is.
But...if you can get it, get it.
aggieterpkatie
The Shepherd
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2009
- Messages
- 3,696
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 156
I've never in my life had an anaphalaxis reaction to any shot out of thousands of shots I've given. It could happen, but in my experience it's very rare.
lupinfarm
Loving the herd life
Just a thought, Cmjust0, would a regular Epi-pen work? I would think it'd be easier to have an epi-pen on hand than the vial and needle because you are able to jab them quicker with it. I've been thinking of speaking to my vet about getting an epi-pen to keep on hand but we don't have the vet out too often.
freemotion
Self Sufficient Queen
Epi-pens are EXPENSIVE and epinephrin is CHEAP. So unless you have a prescription and carry one....better not tell your insurance company you need another one because you gave it to your goat, though! 
You can get a tiny vial at TSC or through catalogs that sell vaccines for something like $5-6, I think.
I've also given hundreds, probably thousands, of injections to horses, almost all IM, and never had a reaction. But goats are not horses, I don't know if it is more common in goaties.
You can get a tiny vial at TSC or through catalogs that sell vaccines for something like $5-6, I think.
I've also given hundreds, probably thousands, of injections to horses, almost all IM, and never had a reaction. But goats are not horses, I don't know if it is more common in goaties.
I'd say that's doubtful, at best. You used to be able to get it OTC at farm supply stores, but my understanding is that it's strictly Rx now, nation wide, thanks to all the tweakers and speedfreaks out there who used it to make meth.freemotion said:
lupinfarm
Loving the herd life
We can't get ANYTHING seeing as I am in Canada, and cmjust0 is right.. Epi is Rx only. We're not insured regardless so I'm not concerned with paying the extra price for an Epi-pen. I've never had a reaction with the goats either.freemotion said:Epi-pens are EXPENSIVE and epinephrin is CHEAP. So unless you have a prescription and carry one....better not tell your insurance company you need another one because you gave it to your goat, though!
You can get a tiny vial at TSC or through catalogs that sell vaccines for something like $5-6, I think.
I've also given hundreds, probably thousands, of injections to horses, almost all IM, and never had a reaction. But goats are not horses, I don't know if it is more common in goaties.
This is probably pointless in me even considering, I can't even get the Tetanus anti-toxin shots to give after your goat has hurt itself from my vet because he's "never seen a goat vaccinated against Cd/t develop tetanus and its really expensive and has a short shelf life"
aggieterpkatie
The Shepherd
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2009
- Messages
- 3,696
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 156
:/
Really expensive? Here it's only $5 per one-dose vial.lupinfarm said:
- Thread starter
- #10
Thanks for the responses everyone.....
I am going to check with the vet and see if she is willing to prescribe some for me, but i suppose if she isnt willing to do that I will just roll the dice as I figure the CD/T is necessary.
I have 8 that i need to vac this weekend so i guess i'll find out soon enough how lucky i am lol.
Oh and one more thing any suggestions on needle gauge for CD/T and Nigerians? This will be my first time giving vacs
Thanks again
I am going to check with the vet and see if she is willing to prescribe some for me, but i suppose if she isnt willing to do that I will just roll the dice as I figure the CD/T is necessary.
I have 8 that i need to vac this weekend so i guess i'll find out soon enough how lucky i am lol.
Oh and one more thing any suggestions on needle gauge for CD/T and Nigerians? This will be my first time giving vacs
Thanks again
