cl in dairy goats and milk

[Valley Ranch]

So I have been investigating cl especially with the new vaccine that is now out. We have dairy goats and there seems to be alot of talk amongst the meat goat raisers but not dairy.
So does CL come through in milk? Can it get you sick through milk?
Would the antibodies the vaccine cause to develop be an issue in goat milk?
I am hoping some dairy goat people can jump in and give me some info.
thanks

 

[Roll farms]

I can't give you technical answers, only anecdotal.....I've drank milk from CL+ goats for years.
I've vaccinated clean does w/ Cas-Bac (sheep CL vaccine) for years and drank their milk.

It's been my experience that meat goat people are a lot more accepting of CL than dairy goat people....mention CL at a dairy goat club and watch the faces turn pale.

 

[Valley Ranch]

hahaha that has been my experience too!! And I always think, no wonder it is such a problem if no one will address it!!
There doesn't seem to be any info beyond personal experience out there either. I have just found a new vet who treats goats and even she admits she doesn't know alot, which I see as a positive sign. She asked her partner what he though and his answer was"no I wouldn't touch it" and what I felt like saying to him was "do you even know what cl is??"
For a disease that has been running amok here for so long you'd think there would be more answers!!
I am hoping my vet can tell me if the milk can be tested and I'll check that out.
My thought is milk is always going to have some level of bacteria in it, as even pasteurization doesn't kill it all but how bad it cl really? I know it is supposed to be zoonotic but why then hasn't it become rampant amongst goat milk drinkers? goat milkers? Heck even the other animals on goat farms, like the dogs and horses etc. Things just don't add up.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you pasteurize?

 

[Roll farms]

Yes, because we sell "CAE prev. raised kids", we pasteurize.

We've been dealing w/ CL for 10 yrs or so now. It's not something I'm proud of or anything, and I wish we didn't have to deal w/ it...but...it's not the mind-numbing disaster I was first told (by my vet) that it would be, either. Healthy, happy goats seldom have outbreaks. We might lance 3-4 a year in a herd of 25 animals or so.

Not one kid sold has ever had CL, either, to my knowledge...and you can bet your bippy that if one did, we'd hear about it.

 

[Valley Ranch]

Thanks.
We always had a small closed herd until we recently picked up 2 milk does from a really dodgy breeder. Been dealing with staph and malnutrition and now started to worry about cl!!! I've been reading alot and asking vets and there is alot of misinformation.
It seems you can't keep it away forever so need to come up with a game plan and educate yourself.

 

[chubbydog811]

I'm glad there is a discussion starting on this! CL does seem to have very little info about it. I personally wish there was more.

I am a dairy goat person, and like Roll said - mention CL to dairy people, and their faces go pale.
I for one, am running a clean herd. I had an..outbreak for lack of better words...of CAE (bought a doe from a friend I trusted, other older doe nursed off of infected doe and got it, another doe somehow got it, and 2 bucks). I culled every single one. Whether they were sold as pets only, or put in the freezer, I want nothing to do with it. If it were CL, they all would have been euthanize and cremated or buried in a deep hole on the back 40 that I'm not planning on using any time within the near future.

From the experience I have had with CL, it doesn't pass through the milk...My friend sold me 2 doelings who's mother was infected with CL (didn't know before she sold them). Neither doeling had CL and they were on her for about a week or so. Though both were positive for CAE.
I do remember reading somewhere about it being contagious to humans through milk, but obviously they were a bit wrong!

 

[Valley Ranch]

All my research is now saying it cannot pass through milk unless there was an abscess in the udder that burst. But that would probably cause mastitis too. So you wouldn't be drinking the milk for that purpose.
I am going to talk to my vet on Moday but I think I am going to go ahead and vaccinate all my girls and be done with it. I'd rather know they aren't going to get it than have to deal with it. I cannot understand how such misinformation can get out there.
I still cannot find for sure if pasturization kills CL or not. Some articles say yes othes no.

 

[DivineDesignLivingSoil]

I know this is really old but I was hoping some more people could weigh in on this topic especially now that some time has passed? Any more thoughts? New studies or opinions?

 

[Mini Horses]

I haven't seen anything "new" on CL in goats in a long, long time. Thinking on it, I suppose it's because we utilize meat type as younger animals for slaughter and there are WAY fewer goat dairy farms in USA. Most dairy for goat milk is homestead type, few commercial. Actually goat milk is widely consumed worldwide but, few realize this. India has huge goat dairies.

So for more info, you may want to research those other countries who are more involved with larger numbers. USA is more dairy cow centered, although commercial goat & sheep dairies do exist.

Years back, TX A&M as well as VA Tech had a lot of goat studies/info. But that was when the meat breeds were coming in from African herds/breeds. Now, don't know their current studies.

 

[Ridgetop]

It's been my experience that meat goat people are a lot more accepting of CL than dairy goat people....mention CL at a dairy goat club and watch the faces turn pale.

That is a true statement! We had dairy goats for years and if a lump appeared for any reason we did not culture. That animal went into the trailer and straight to the sale barn. We had a CAE clean herd and blood-tested every year for that along with pasteurizing all milk fed to kids. We drank unpasteurized milk in the house and raised 4 children on it. But see a lump and panc ensued!

We've been dealing w/ CL for 10 yrs or so now. It's not something I'm proud of or anything, and I wish we didn't have to deal w/ it...but...it's not the mind-numbing disaster I was first told (by my vet) that it would be, either. Healthy, happy goats seldom have outbreaks. We might lance 3-4 a year in a herd of 25 animals or so.

The main problem with CL is interior abscesses forming on organs that can cause death. If an animal gets abscesses in the udder, mastitis will develop as well. I would pull and bottle feed any kids whose mother develops udder abscesses since the milk will turn bad and eventually sicken the kid that nurses on the side with the abscess. If you are bottle feeding and milking on a twice a day schedule, you will notice any udder problem or beginning mastitis before it can get to that point and can take steps to treat it. Keeping the udder empty and treating with Today or a similar treatment (now available with a vet prescription only) can cure the mastitis and prevent udder damage.

With regard to CL in sheep:
Coming from dairy goats to sheep we freaked out about any abscess. Many abscesses are NOT CL related. When I checked with long-time large-scale sheep breeders I found sheep people are not as worried about CL. They simply drain and treat abscesses. The majority of sheep breeders probably have CL cases in their flocks. That includes good, reputable breeders because sheep people are not as worried about abscesses. Wool sheep breeders have been dealing with abscesses for years caused by stickers in wool which make small infections that aren't seen until the sheep is shorn. Shearing often also results in nicks that cause small pustules. These are treated and ignored. Abscesses in meat animals are trimmed out with no problems other than causing a loss of $$ from waste. Abscesses can be found at injection sites too.

The Case-Bac vaccine is no longer recommended for goats. It was found to cause some problems in caprines. A new vaccine is being developed in Europe for goats but is not available on the open market yet and certainly not in this country. At a recent judge training seminar, with South African trainers who run thousands of head on the veldt, when I asked about abscesses I was told they did not worry about them. However, if you have a large outbreak of CL in the flock or want to prevent it, they suggested vaccinating all lambs. By vaccinating all lambs against CL the disease can be eradicated from the flock in 5 years. Probably.

There is a blood test for Caseous Lymphadenitis. The Case-Bac vaccine has a 90% effectiveness rate on prevention of CL. The CL blood test shows the presence of CL antibodies which do not necessarily mean that the animal HAS the disease. It only means that they were exposed at one point. The problem is that after vaccinating, all vaccinated sheep will show the CL antibodies forever. Under those circumstances the blood test becomes worthless. The only truly accurate test is to test the exudate from any abscess.

Since not all exposed animals get CL, and since not all animals with CL produce abscesses, it is a question of being between a rock and a hard place. Don't vaccinate and continually test or vaccinate and they all test positive anyway. Chances are if you raise sheep sooner or later you will end up with a CL positive animal whether from exposure or vaccination. If you raise goats, cull any individual that throws out an abscess. You will probably cull animals that don't have CL, but you will feel you have done all you could.

Hope this information helps.