Couple questions from a "kidding virgin" My girls are due any day!

[gibbsgirl]

Here goes. Sorry, if I ramble a little. I'll try and make good later and make one of those kidding threads that I've seen people have fun with here when the time comes!

I spent the weekend acquiring 16 new goats. There are 7 does. Some obviously pregnant. Others supposedly are also. My hubby spent the weekend working on fixing things up to be ready for them to kid. (Previously, our "Goat Resume" is 3 wethers that we're had for two years.)

I live in SW Indiana. It's zone 6 for gardening if that helps for reference.

My two question topics are about the day/week they kid and housing.

#1. What do I need to give the kids the day they are born?

I've got 7% iodine cause I read to dip their umbilical cords in it to prevent infection. Can it be reused or dumped after each baby (cause I only got 1 bottle)?

Are there any meds, vaccines, tests, etc that I need to make sure I have bought/shipped to me so I have them at the right time that day or the first week?

#2. I don't know "how warm" to keep the kids. I basically have three shelters at this point. All three have horse stall mats laid overtop pallets with some bedding.
How deep should the bedding be?

One shelter is four sides of sheet metal with an open door and a gap of less than a foot at the top edges just under the roof to let air and light circulate. The other two are chainlink dog kennels next to each other-so one side of each is the border. One side of each of them is against a metal fence. There is tarp hooked around the other sides.

They keep the goats dry and they keep the goats out of the wind fairly well.

I have little doggie sweaters I got from the xmas clearance sales that I can put on the kids. (Two people already told me to do that.)

But, what about the temperature??? I could try and line the sides that have only tarp with hay bales. And, I might be able to hang my brooder lights, but I'm a little worried the goats could knock them and they'd start a fire. And, is there a temperate range like I've followed with chicks for each week they age til they grow their feathers and can remove the lamps?

Obviously, if I had the pesos, I would love to have a lovely barn with all the fixins. But, there wasn't one when we moved here, and we've been doing what we can as we can so far. I know this isn't Alaska, but it's not Hawaii either. So, I could really use some directions or know-how from anyone who can tell me what I should be doing given what the winter here is like.

Alright, that's it for now. Be gentle! I realize I might be overlooking or overthinking or both, so just let me have it!

 

[Queen Mum]

OK, first off, Read this page to get good information on your birthing kit.

Then take a look at this page to learn about the signs of labor in a goat.

Here is a nice little page with pictures of a baby goat being born. Caution, icky stuff on the page, like goo and such. And cute babies.

AND THIS PAGE gives you detailed written directions about assisting the birth of a baby goat. WITH PICTURES.

Are you overwhelmed yet?

Now, relax. It's a lot easier than all that, because most of the time they do it all by themselves.

AS for birthing conditions (housing), you will need to make sure the doe is out of the wind and the rain, there are no drafts and that she is fairly isolated from the other does. The kids, as long as they are dried off very well, (completely dry) should be fine, if the temperatures are above freezing. If they are even slightly damp, they can get really cold and hypothermic. SO you will need to make sure that they get dried off. If it is a cold night, you might consider taking them in the house and making sure they are completely dry then taking them back out to Mama. (Be sure they stand and nurse first.) Once the doe is done giving birth, clean up the icky straw and put in fresh. So the kids don't get all wet again.

 

[elevan]

Here is a very good page put together by Roll farms: http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=586-goats-kidding

 

[Roll farms]

It's really quite simple - if the baby goats "act" cold, do something to make them warmer....heat lamps, sweaters, block drafts, etc.
Standing alone, hunched up and shivering, or lying on their sides, weak, would both be bad signs.
If you find one lying down and weak, you'll have to warm it up and keep it warm for a while.

Once they're dried off and fed colostrum, they should maintain body temp unless they're preemies or have problems. Getting, and keeping, them dry is key.

I don't use a temperature rule, even with chicks, I just watch the animal's behavior....if it's cold, you can tell by how it's acting.

Do try to avoid taking them into a warm house as much as possible (but if the kid is cold enough to die, you'll probably have to). Getting really warm and then put back out in the cold can make it even harder for them to regulate their temp.

If any of the kids have difficulty standing, or seem to have weak legs, you may need to give them a shot of BoSe (selenium / vitamin E combo - you get it from a vet - I give it to all of our does 5 and again 2 weeks pre-kidding and usually the kids don't need it at birth). 1/2 cc is what I usually give newborns.

I spray or dip the navels with iodine at birth and again a few hours later. You can use an empty film canister or small storage bowl, something shallow and dip all the way to the belly. I put a spray bottle under the cord and spray up several times.

 

[20kidsonhill]

for safer heat lamps, look up heat lamp barrels. They work great and really help with safety. Your biggest concern with heat, will be right when they are born, once they get their belly full of milk, they are pretty tough.

What breed do you have? Sorry, if I missed that? Some breeds are a little tougher in the cold weather than others.


We have a pole shed, use deep bedding(don't clean out during the winter), we don't have any insulation in it, just metal sided. And we have rarely closed the doors in it, even while kidding. Your bedding probably needs to be 6 to 10 inches, but the does love to dig it out when they are kidding to make a hole to kid.

I would highly suggest a couple bonding or kidding pens, 4x6 is a good minimum size for a larger breed goat. to keep the mom and kids in for a day or two. Goats can get confussed whose babies are whose when they are first kidding, Once they think their baby belongs to someone else, they wont take it back. So giving your pregnant does that are due corners and places to lay in so they feel isolated is helpful during kidding. In nature, they go find a quiet place to lay under a tree or low spot, but in a barn situation it is a lot harder for them to get away from each other.

We check on ours every couple hours when the time gets closer, 24 hours day, during kidding, when it is cold,let's say below 25 degrees, you will not have hours for the mom/the baby to get up nursing. They need to get up in the first hour and nurse or get under a heat lamp and then be fed. Once they have a full belly they can handle the colder weather.


Things you should consider. Giving your goats loose minerals.

Putting your goats on a good GOAT pelleted grain.

good quallity hay, 2nd cutting grass hay.

Offering some form of alfalfa while they are nursing. pellets or alfalfa hay.

CD&T vaccination shots.

GETTing a vet to give you are RX for Bo=SE a selenium vit E injectable.

Having the following antibiotics on hand. Penn G(Procain G) and oxy-tetracyclene injectable,

needles and syringes.

a pritchard nipple and water bottle that it fits on.

whole cows milk can work in a pinch.

milk the first possible goat that you can and freeze the milk for an emergency. If you have a single, this is a great time to get some milk.

3cc syringes work great for force feeding a weak baby, get some.

corn syrup, black regular coffee and mollasses, can give a cold baby energy, have some on hand.(coffee for yourself)

baking soda is a most to have around for a goat with an upset stomach.



A local vet that will come out and help

a local farmer that will come out and mentor you. I highly suggest finding one. Indiana has a lot of farms.

A phone number to a couple people that will give you advice.


Don't keep the babies too warm after they are a couple days old. It can cause respitory problems. Air circulations is important in your barn, if you go in and it is humid because you had it closed up, it is unhealthy for your goats.

 

[gibbsgirl]

2 does are boer, possibly a boer crossed with maybe an alpine. the other 5 does are fainting goats, possibly minis. Some of them have kidded before, but I think a few have not.

We bought a skid of bedding (45 bags today). We're using those and extra tarps to line the sides of the pnes we can get to for warmth. I have a thermostat plug that will turn things on and off based on the temp. It will turn on at 35*F and off at 45*F. I think I'll hang my old brooder lights and plug them into the thermostat, and see how that goes.

Could you tell me about how much coffee, syrup, molasses, etc to give a kid in trouble. And, what are the signs I do that in-unconcious, lethargic, won't nurse for X amount of time. I have syringes.

Should I weigh them at birth? And, every few days after to see if their is any troubling weight loss (like checking newborns to see if they are thriving when you're nursing)?

I bought some dog collars today in a variety of colors and lengths. But, I don't know what size collars typically fit a kid, nanny, and buck. 13 of the goats look really similar. I want to put one color on the bucks, and one on each doe. Then, put them on the kids to match the mom's colors. I think it will help me to see the colors to keep track of who is who for the next couple months.

Can anyone tell me what collar lengths are typically right for bucks, does, or kids.

Thanks everyone for sharing with me and other readers.

 

[20kidsonhill]

thin corn syrup with just enough hot coffee to make it watery enough to feed. I normally use corn syrup, but some people do use mollasses.

If kid is standing well, and I just want to make sure they are getting a kick-start, I often milk some of mother's milk into the corn syrup and thin it that way, assumming the mother's milk isn't too thick from being the first milk, in that case, I still add a little hot coffee plus mother's milk, you can just add a little hot water. I like giving a really cold kid some caffeine.

I try to get 15 to 20cc(30cc = one ounce) in them to get the sugars going in their system. Then I will follow up with trying to get them to nurse in 15 or 30 minutes after they have been under a heat lamp. If I can't get them to nurse, then I continue with the corn syrup and a mixture of mother's milk. I would eventually switch to a bottle(pritchard nipple) if mom has rejected them, or they are having a lot of problems standing to get more milk into them. (2 to 4 ounces), then I would give them 4 or 5 hours to digest.

I use this recipee fairly often in cold weather, I find it helps give me the time I need to warm up the kid and get them nursing. if the kid nurses right away and has a good sucking reflex right away, I don't worry about it. I normally try to first get them on mom and see if they will nurse on mom.

Times I use it;
- if mom is busy having a 2nd and 3rd kid and baby is standing there waiting to be fed for more than 15/20min. and it is cold out, below 35 degress or so.
-if mom has had 2 or 3 or 4 kids, and it is just taking time for one or two of them to get going. the colder it is the quicker I am running for the corn syrup.
-if I come out to the barn, and mom has had kids, and one of them is laying there shivering, looking seperated from mom and cold, i give it right away and get them under a heat lamp.
-if I come out and they are laid flat on their sides, you will be suprised if you get them under a heat lamp or in the house by a wood stove and get them to swallow some corn syrup and start warming them up, how well some of them will recover.

Okay, when I say get them under a heatlamp, I always move them in a pen with mom. the pen we use is 4x6, it is big enough for our boer does, but not too big. You want mom to be close to her new kids to encourage bonding. Most the time, mom has a baby, turns around, starts licking it, and she is bonded. Every now and then the mom gets confussed, so getting them in a smaller space can help with bonding, but lilke I said before, if there is a lot going on and mom thinks that baby belongs to someone else, and she counts that she had one baby, but there are actually two. It is nearly impossible to get her to take the baby back.

When you move mom and the babies, the mom should start smelling and licking the babies, and cooing over them. If you set them in a small pen with her and she only looks at one of them, or acts upset about being in the pen away from her herd mates, you very likely have a bottle baby on your hands. Most mom's are so devoted those first couple of days, even if they are wild, they wouldn't leave their babies side, if you approach, and when you move the babies they will follow you.

Moving babies, when you move the babies, try to move them all together at the same time. move them just a few feet at a time and set them back down on the ground, carry them low to the ground, once they are off the ground they can't find them. some mom's will follow better than others.move them 8 or 10 feet, set them down, let mom smell them and check them out, then move them another few feet, if there are 3 or 4 move them all together, or move two a few feet, go back and get the other one or two, put them all together, ect... you get the idea.

Give mom time to smell and lick baby, assisting is needed sometimes, but if mom doesn't get a chance to turn around and lick her baby, she may become confussed. If the sack needs to be cleared from babies head, break it open and clean off face real quickly then set baby down right in front of mom. Again, some mom's catch on quick some mom's can get confussed easily. I would rather give mom a 3 or 4 minutes to bond with baby out in the cold, than snatch up the baby right away. Unless your planning on bottle feeding.

Good luck, sorry about being long winded.

 

[Mamaboid]

20kids: Excellent post. I learned a lot just reading this one post. Thank you for the great info.

 

[20kidsonhill]

20kids: Excellent post. I learned a lot just reading this one post. Thank you for the great info.

Your welcome, I moved the information to "MY Page" and started a "Kidding Time" page to help organize questions and answers. Roll farm has an excellant "My page" with kidding information and photos. Roll bottle raises everything, so there will be some difference when handling the kids after birth and during labor. My goal is to dam raise as many as possible, I avoid bottle raising, it isn't cost effective for us to have to purchase milk when the doe can provide the milk for the kids, and obviously bottle raising is time consuming.
In addition, my does aren't all that tame, compared to a farm that milks their does. In fact I prefer them to not be under foot and not tame. But that does on occasion pose a little more difficulty when trying to handle the doe during treatment and kidding.

 

[gibbsgirl]

Thank you so much for all the detail. Okay, now I really feel extra prepared. I'm starting to get down to a healthy amount of butterflies in my stomach! Was feeling like I might bark or faint or both trying to get up to speed on a lot of this.

Thank you so much for the heat barrel warmer suggestion. We're got some barrels today, and we're going to work on making some of those!

I've got coffee, molasses, and corn syrup ready to go and several syringes.

The tips for how to get the mom to move into a small stall following the babies is great. I understand the does should be kept in their own stalls with the babies for 2-7 days to get to know each other and to stay warm.

But, should I just let them kid anywhere they want or should I try and get them into the stall before the babies are born if I catch a doe in labor? Seems like it will be very cold if I don't move the mommas into their stall cause really other than the shelter pens I have, my goats are outside in their pen without any cover.