Cows! Cows! I want some cows!

[TheCluckyClucker]

I really want some cows. Like a small business. This would not be happening anytime soon, but I would like to learn. We have plenty of property, but no fences. There was cows here before. We have a local sale barn. So here is how it goes. You get some cows and a bull. You keep all of their heifer offspring and sale the bull calves. Then, when your original cows get old, you sale them and continue the cycle. So can someone inform me on some general information and answer a few specific questions. There are some qualities that I would like. I would like for them to reproduce easily, not be too aggressive, Highlands are not an option (They are too cute), They need not to be expensive, and they need to achieve a decent sale price.

1. What kind of housing is best?
2. What kind of fencing is best?
3. What breed of cows do you own?
4. What breed of cows do you suggest?
5. What do I feed cows?
6. How many acres do I fence in?
7. Does the FFA still do a fencing program?

I have looked at a few different breed including: Longhorns, Hereford, Holstein, Brahman, Red Angus, Black Angus, and Charolais. Thank You!

 

[Baymule]

I’ve had cattle before, don’t have any now and don’t profess to be any kind of expert at all. LOL Expert definition— Ex is a used to be and spert is a drip. LOL

Go to sale barns in your area and see which cattle bring the best prices. I can tell you that cattle with black hides bring more because everybody knows black hair tastes the best. Sorry, can’t resist being a smart Alec.

What are your range conditions? What is your weather and location?

Fence. A 5-6 strand barbed wire fence with well set corners and 16’ gates for truck and trailer swing room. Also wide enough gates for tractors and equipment to go through.

What is plenty of property? How many acres do you have?

Housing. Cows wear leather coats. Barns for hay storage are nice and working pens, loading chutes, corral for feeding the cattle in so that they will come in. Then it is easier to sort them, run them through the chute for vaccinations, worming and maybe dehorning. Banding testicals or wean bull calves and take to sale.

What grass do you have?

It isn’t as simple as it seems. You have to have a standard for the cattle to fit your property. You don’t want a high headed cow, a crazy cow looking to jump the fence or run you down. You have to keep the best, sell the rest.

@farmerjan is our resident cattle ( I sure don’t want to say expert) uhhh… knowledgeable person! Yeah! That’s it! Knowledgeable! Got any advice Jan?

 

[TheCluckyClucker]

Again, it will be a few years before cows may appear. I live in Central Arkansas. In Winter it rarely gets in the negatives. In Summer it rarely gets above 100 degrees Fahrenheit. We have roughly 10 acres. We have a barn but I plan to make a horse stall out of it. We are working on fencing for horses this winter. @Baymule What info do you have to give me on horses. I have done some research on them. We do have some small silos that would work great. I have no idea what kind of grass we have but it has supported cows before. Knowledgeable is a wonderful work indeed.

 

[farmerjan]

@Baymule tagged me so I will try to answer what questions I can, but I have as many for you..... Again Bay asked most. First off.... WELCOME to the forum. We have a pretty diverse and interesting group here.

Can you please put your general area/state in your profile. Go up to your name at the top right, down to account details, and under location put in a general area as you see many of us have. It makes a BIG difference in suggestions for breeds, feeds etc....

Yes, go to the sale barn, SIT ON YOUR HANDS and watch and LISTEN. Learn what sells best in your area. Here in Va anything with "ear" or with "leather".....meaning brahma type influence, will get badly discounted..... Herefords take a hit due to many thinking they all get pinkeye and they all have crummy udders.....BLACK is the color that sells as Bay says... black hide makes them taste better......

It is a marketing thing that the angus assoc started and has been VERY SUCCESSFUL.... not saying right or wrong... just that they made it work. Partly due to the fact that the Japanese had a big influence years ago and that angus beef was considered superior to other breeds so then it became a way to sell beef and became a marketing tool. So they set up a set of standards for "angus beef" that is not necessarily angus.... it is from "black angus influenced" cattle.
Anyway.... yes, get specific with the following things: How much land, what types of grass, do you have a way to make hay, what does your weather require as far as supplemental feeding......are you in an area that direct sales of beef would be more profitable than sale of feeder/weaned cattle.

 

[TheCluckyClucker]

At the moment, if we were to get cows soon, we would buy hay. Thank you for the warm welcome. I will try to go to the sale barn one Saturday. Here, we have quite a few cattle beef business.

 

[farmerjan]

Okay, I see you just posted while I was typing an answer. First off, if you have a horse/horses, you will find that 10 acres will not go very far. MOST areas, like here, with decent amounts of moisture.... will support 1 cow calf pair to 2 acres.... using rotational grazing practices. You are looking at maybe 2-4 cows max. Honestly not worth having a bull full time as a breeder. So you are looking to see if there would be a bull available to lease for a 60 day breeding season. All according to how many horses you have, you will have little or no pasture available for cattle grazing. Overgrazing will result in more weeds and poorer grass in the long run.

All of us cattle breeders that have an operation where we figure costs pretty close, from people I know in Texas to Georgia to some in Canada.... all agree that it costs in the neighborhood of 450-600 per year per cow to cover all costs of feed, grazing value, vaccinations, everything except depreciation..... You will be lucky to sell feeder calves off for more than the 5-600 average return on 450-500 lb feeders at 6-7 months old. That is for steer calves....heifers bring less. It takes 2 years to get a heifer raised up before she has her first calf... so she does not provide you with any return on investment for nearly 3 years... You will have 1200 in that heifer before you can sell her first calf off....
So if it costs you 500/yr to cover all costs of keeping a cow, and if she has a bull calf, that you make a steer, and it grows good and you can sell it off at 7 months for 6-700.... you have made 200 off that cow for a year's worth of work.... If she has a heifer calf, and you sell it at 7 months and get 500 back then you might have paid for the cow's costs for the year. If she has a dead calf, you have a lost year... if she breeds back late then you have a calf to sell off after 18 months instead of every 12..... if she doesn't breed back then you can cull her and prices will run in the 4-600 return for a cull cow.... varies with weight and time of year and demand. I have sold 1200 lb cows for $. 40/ lb and been glad to get it when the market is down.

Your best bet would be to get a couple of head at 4-600 lbs and raise up for your own beef. The value will be much greater as beef in your freezer than to try to make a small cow calf operation work with only that much ground. Hay this year is expensive, there is a real shortage in the southwest.... our hay yield this spring was about 2/3 of normal... we are still making hay now since later growth has been better, but it takes a long time to get it dry and days are short. We are selling sq bales here for 6-7.00 for just average hay... 8.00 for sq bales of orchard grass.... and barely paying our costs with the price of fuel being higher this year, labor being hard to come by, and equipment costs continuing to go up.....We are not taking any new customers on as we can barely keep our long time customers supplied.

Hope this is a little help. I am not trying to be discouraging... but you have to have a realistic overview. We run over 150 head of brood cows, selling off 75-80% of the calves, and can barely make our payments on equipment and land.... Fertilizer has already gone up 80% and there is no relief in sight. Next year we will be hard pressed to be able to fertilize the land we do now... and it will cost an average of $700/acre to put out corn next year for us to chop for silage......not counting the chopping/bagging costs.... which is about $200-250 more than this years costs.
There is no cheap way to raise cattle. And there is no easy way to "make a profit" if you truly figure in the costs.

 

[farmerjan]

I think that you will find that most of the beef cattle operations have either been in business for years and the farms are paid for and the people doing it are willing to do it for little or no return. Or they have other jobs and the income from the cattle is not that important.... most will use it as a write off against farm taxes. So they are not expecting the cattle to make them money..... and many people do not figure in the total actual costs of what it really costs.

 

[TheCluckyClucker]

Just trying to learn. We have family land surrounding us that we could use to put cows on. I really want horses right now instead of cows, so that will come first. When we get a fence I have 2 horses that my Grandpa already said I could have. One is about 20 yrs. old and the other about 8 yrs. old.

 

[Baymule]

Horses are a hole in your pocket that you dump money in. I usually keep 3 or 4. Haha. I have none at the moment, it may be a year or two before I can get horses again. Terrible. I was shopping online today……..

20 and 8 are good ages, they should be settled and sensible. Although I had a Tennessee Walker mare the no matter how old she got, she was spooky and looked for monsters. I retired her at 30.

Your Grandpa can help you with what to feed them, hay and such. I’m sure he is a wealth of information.

 

[Alaskan]

I think that you will find that most of the beef cattle operations have either been in business for years and the farms are paid for and the people doing it are willing to do it for little or no return. Or they have other jobs and the income from the cattle is not that important.... most will use it as a write off against farm taxes. So they are not expecting the cattle to make them money..... and many people do not figure in the total actual costs of what it really costs.

All true.

Hard to make income from cattle unless you have a bunch of land.

And yes... black hide sells best but my grandfather refused to go away from polled Herefords.

Herefords are well known for calving ease, great mothering, and easy to manage. BUT that also depends on how you manage your cattle, and genetics.

My grandfather selected carefully for his herd, making sure that they were easy to handle and manage (as well as the regular things). The last cow that we had that had eye issues was sold when I was kid. He had selected carefully against eye issues until it was no longer a problem.

He had the polled herefords so he didn't have to worry about horns.

He always bought a super young bull, from a breeder that (as well as all of the usual things) selected for gentle well mannered bulls that were trained to not push up against you.

Then my grandfather would keep the bull for about 3 years, at which point the bull would start to "feel his oats" so he would be sold and replaced with a new young one. That strategy was so our fences could stay in horrid shape. No joke. Also, selling a young proven bull meant he almost made money on the bull, since he bought them young and untried.

He also sold any cow that felt like running through fences was a good idea.

And my grandfather had them all trained to come when called, so it was easy to move them.

BUT, then there is my cousin, she also has cattle, scrub cattle and some herefords. She doesn't manage them like my grandfather did his. She is pretty hands off. As a result, when trying to load a few up her brother was royally trampled. Super bad.

Bad accidents can happen with any large animal....