Doe in Labor/kidded C-section...Pics added

[Aped]

Okay, here we go. I didn';t want to be one of those people but here i am asking for advice while my doe is in labor. I know I will probably have to call a vet but I don't even have a large animal vet and they are hard to find since I don't know anyone with large animals.

Okay anyway, I came home at 630p, saw my doe who is an FF, had mucus running out. She had been pushing for about a half hour. I saw the little bubble and so I went and popped it.

Then I see one hoof coming out, and that kind of happened for an hour(730p). I was worried it was taking long so I sterilized, went in and found both hooves in correct position and kind of tried to gently spread her out so they would find their way out easier.

After some more pushing and no progress, I ended up tugging on those hooves and they have come out more and stayed out but the head is not following. If I try to pull the kid out, there is no movement. I can't get the kids head to come out further and it is not rested above the legs. Well it is but not where the hooves are, it is still inside.

Am I rushing her? Should I wait longer. I don't want her to exhaust herself. My worry is the kid is too large and won't fit out although I can pretty much feel the whole head so it must be passed the pelvis.

I think I need to find an emergency vet...

 

[aggieterpkatie]

Ok, first off, relax.

Is the head turned back? If so, you'll need to go in and grab it (I usually grab the muzzle) and pull it into the correct position. Once the head is in the correct position, you'll want to go ahead and gently pull (with the contractions) the baby out. Usually before you ever pull you want to first make sure the head is in the correct position.

And I don't think you're rushing. If she's been truly pushing since 6:30, that baby needs to come out.


For future reference, it's not a good idea to pop the bubble. The bubble is keeping in amniotic fluid which helps lubricate the kid for ease of kidding.

 

[helmstead]

I would try pushing the legs back in and repositioning the kid (use a string/kid puller to make sure the head comes with the legs this time) - or even trying to deliver it breech

At this point, you will be lucky to deliver a live kid.

If you're not comfortable doing this, then yes, ER vet ASAP before the doe is in danger.

 

[glenolam]

I just wanted to send my good wishes - I hope everything worked out.

 

[freemotion]

It is very scary while it is happening....I think my life was shortened by at least a year today! How is she doing?

And thank goodness for this forum. I saved my doe and her kid today thanks in large part to people on this forum. The vet was not an option. I tried. So don't feel bad about asking.

 

[Aped]

Well here's how it went down:

I called the only vet I knew that dealt with goats but to my surprise, I guess they don't even though they are a large animal vet. They then referred me to another place called New Bolton Center(a part of UPenn). Initially the receptionist made it sound like I was up the creek without a paddle. She told me it would be way too expensive to come in for a c-section at their facility. She asked me if I wanted to talk to a surgeon about pricing and I said yes. The surgeon was a young guy, really nice and actually tried to work with me unlike the receptionist. At first he said $1000 minimum to do a c-section. I said I can't afford that and don't want to put her down. He then asked if he could make a few calls and get back to me. He did and making a few adjustments, like local anesthesia and not charging an emergency fee, which he said he could do right now because there was some act that has not gone through yet. I have no idea what that act is but he then quoted me 300-350 or slightly more. I said okay and was there in a half hour.

Now onto the goat. She had been in labor since at least 6pm I would say. I got her in there and there were about 15 people there all poking and prodding her. They all seemed much more optimistic than I was about both the doe AND her kid(s) making it through this okay. I was still a bit skeptical. The problem was that the kid's head was stuck in the does pelvic opening, hence the feet coming out and not the head. They prepped her, opened her, got the kid it which was only one big buck and he was alive and trying to walk just 5 minutes after they took him out of her which was around 11:20pm. Both mom and baby are supposedly going to be fine. I had to leave them there overnight and maybe up to 48 hours and they will contact me about their status and when I can pick them up.

This is my first kidding and I honestly don't see how it could've been any worse! I have to say though, that I really appreciate how those people at New Bolton Center helped me out today. I also now must find a regular goat vet of which there really seem to be none in this area and that worries me.

Also, now my whole goat plan is turned upside down. I was hoping to get a doe out of this doe even though I knew most FF's have 1 buck. But now I don't even think I can breed her again. She is one year old and had a problem with one big kid. She may grow a bit more but I think she will always have problems kidding. Am I right about that? She is a nigerian and supposedly her dam milked a 1/2 gallon per day at her peak and I was really looking forward to that. Oh well. I have another due to kid at the end of June. She is completely unrelated to this doe so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there are no problems.

 

[freemotion]

Great end to your harrowing day. Let us know what the vet says about her kidding future.

 

[helmstead]

Great outcome! I was so worried for you!

My vet has advised that you usually can attempt a VBAC provided the incision for the section was done in a certain way (forgive me, I cannot remember). I hope that you're able to try again with this doe.

PS you might consider having the other doe ultrasounded/x rayed to see whats in there. If you have another singleton, you might want to reduce feed in the last month to avoid it growing too large, and even consider inducing the doe at day 140 under vet supervision. Singletons almost always get stuck...some just a little, and as you know, some quite badly.

 

[glenolam]

I'm glad to hear that everything worked out and they were able to help you so well and on such short notice!

I have no advice or expertise on whether or not she can kid again, but I definitely don't think you should give up. If you find out you cannot breed her again (or just don't want to), maybe find another doe who's about a year and 1/2 or two years old and it will work out better. I didn't breed my doeling last fall because I was worried she was still too small, but she's a bigger breed anyway and wasn't quite 70 lbs during breeding season.

When it does go right it is the best feeling ever and you end up with wiggly little kids who steal your heart!



ETA: Sorry - I just noticed you said you have another doe who should kid. Good luck with her! Let us know how everything worked out.

 

[PattySh]

Very sorry to hear about your traumatic delivery. Very glad mom and baby are fine. I am not a pro on goats (yet lol)and malpresentations but have delivered lots of puppies. I will say that a csection happens out of the blue and it's always the moms you least suspect! I have had moms with "head back" babies have C's and then deliver just fine. it's always when my regular vet is not available and I have to go to the EXPENSIVE place too. A dog c-section is generally $1200 or more at that place where my vet does exactly the same surgery with same supplies for under $400. It is very hard to make the decision to rebreed but my feeling (with my dogs and breeding program) is if the dog is young and it's a mispresentation generally safe to rebreed. If it's a mom with generally oversized stuck pups not such a good idea, whether young or not. With my dogs I never breed past age 6. When we "restarted" with goats this time we bred Natalie our pet goat. She was bred at age 1 and 2 and delivered healthy twins each time. She is now 7 and I beleive she is preggers although this goat has the biggest rumen for such a small goat sticks out on both sides of her, still she looks huge I would be surprised if nothing is in there as she was handbred then ran with the male. Not much udder on her but her milk came in during delivery both times. Bit nervous about her! They make you nuts don't they. We also had a baby doeling yesterday our first after being out of goats for a bit.