Doeling not doing well, wondering what the reasons could be....

[savingdogs]

I have a three day old doeling not doing super well. Let me give you her history:

She is one of triplets from my doe Molly, a very good mom. This one is much smaller than her two brothers, and was thinner at birth, but drank colostrum right away (I was there watching) and seemed to do great for the first 24 hours. Nursing, walking around, playing, etc. Mom is in good shape, has plenty of milk and is caring for all three nicely.

End of day two, she wasn't eating real great and seemed kinda sleepy but so were the other two so I didn't think much of it. Her stool looked a tiny bit soft. She kind of nurses and then drops the teat after just a few sucks, but when I test it, there is plenty of milk in the udder. It is like she only wants a tiny amount at a time. I was thinking perhaps she just wasn't as developed as her brothers (they will need disbudding soon, she barely has anything yet).

For some reason the next morning at 3:00 AM I had a weird feeling so went out to the barn, and she was lying by herself cold and with dry yellow scours on her butt and I was very concerned. I brought her in, warmed her up, rehydrated her with Scour Eze and an assortment of supplements I have here (I think I got the bases covered, she had B vitamins, probiotics, nutra drench, selenium paste, and Hoeggers lamb and kid, and some ingredients in the electrolyte mixes).
After 24 hours she was doing great, yelling and hungry, and I moved her back to the barn, she seemed to be having normal stools again and Molly accepted her back wonderfully and I saw her nurse. It seems like she doesn't latch on very long however. But she was butting heads with her brothers and being very cute.

This morning she seemed fine. This is day three.

This evening, not so much. Scouring again. She is alert but taking too many naps. Grinding her teeth. I put her back on the electrolytes and gave her karo syrup and water. She grinds her teeth during feeding and I had to syringe feed her. I'm quite sure she got enough. I do not think she is bloating, her tummy is smooth and soft and seems comfy enough. She walks and stuff well, she just seems to want to go lay down and curl into a ball. Her breathing might seem just a little labored but I'm not sure that I'm not just too concerned, i might be imagining it (I'm the worrier type). Her eyelid color looks good. I think she is hydrated okay.

We have NO local vets that see goats and the small animal vets I've talked to will not give me Bose so that isn't an option for me, that is why I'm contacting all of you, hoping I can figure out why she would be having these symptoms. When I look up the tooth grinding it says it is a sign of pain. I see NO injuries or punctures or reason to think she was injured in any way. Her only outward sign of anything is a poopy butt.

Thanks in advance for any insight you may have into what I can do to help my doeling.

 

[Roll farms]

When I have a scouring newborn, I give 'em 2 pumps of scour-halt (red medicine labeled for pigs, I get it at TSC) and put them on revitalyte gelling until the poops clear up. Then back on milk. I will put 1/4 tsp of baking soda in their milk if they seem bloated / sloshy for a few bottles.

That's the extent of what I do for babies w/ off tummies.

Does she sound sloshy at all?

 

[20kidsonhill]

Like roll said, but I think I would go with more like 1/2 teaspoon baking soda, a couple times today. I just mix it in a little corn syrup or mollasses to make it into a drench, and drench it with a 3cc syringe with the needle off. They hate it. sounds like it could be floppy kid syndrom. could just be really rich milk, and she is small so she doesn't need much.

scour halt is also a good idea. It works really well for bacterial scours.

I don't normally take mine off of mom when treating, so mine just keep getting milk.

 

[savingdogs]

It is quite possible this doe is giving VERY rich milk and lots of it. This is why this doeling is so important to me! LOL Actually I was just as worried last year about a little wether, but I did not get a doeling out of this doe last year and this is really what I was hoping for so I'd sure like to keep the little sweetie going.

She made it through the evening okay. So baking soda hmmmmm. I was looking at that last night.
We don't have TSC here but I wonder if that Scour-Eze product is much like the Scour-halt you are referring to? It is supposed to be electrolytes and minerals and vitamins. She doesn't like it much but takes it better with either karo syrup or molasses. She does fight me though. If I try to bottle feed her, she just sucks an ounce and is done. I'm wondering if this is why she is doing poorly with mom, too little and too rich?

I could just bottle feed this one, the world would not end, but I do dam raise here because my doe is negative and these goats will be lifelong friends, I am keeping this doeling to milk if she makes it.

 

[Roll farms]

Scour-Halt (aka Scour Ease) is Spectinomycin - an antibiotic for E coli.

Sometimes a dam can have a spot o' poo on her udder (or the kid can just get poo in it's mouth...b/c kids do that....) and they get a touch of e coli / bacterial scours.

Scour-Halt's never failed me.

 

[savingdogs]

Cool! I'll have to look for that. We don't have TSC but we have a similar store, but nobody there knows about goats and their goat products consist of about half a shelf. We are kind of way out in the boonies in WA state. They do have a pig section however! I want to say I've even seen that product on the shelf.

I did give her the baking soda just now and she took it pretty good. I'm thinking this little goat will be in the house with me for awhile! At least I can see she is getting really attached, that could be useful later on. I also think her mama will "take her back" later....the doe loves babies. Last year she tried to steal her sister's kids!

I was thinking of keeping her off milk for 24 hours and then trying to ease her back on. I was going to use the doe's own milk (I have some from last year frozen) to ease her back on. Would you use cow milk instead? I have 2 percent here. This frozen I have here is from later in her lactation, not colostrum.

I kind of would not mind using cow milk because the doe is gaunt despite having all she can eat, I was worried she would have a hard time getting back into good condition nursing three because her body just seems to give everything to the milk. If her milk is extra rich, wouldn't that also mean it takes more out of her to produce all this milk?
Last year this doe was a FF, produced one large buckling and never was this thin on the same food regimen, except I probably fed her MORE this year overall.

But if I'm working on fattening her up, is that making the milk too rich for the kids? Or am I overthinking this?
*slap me and tell me to leave you alone if I'm just worrying too much!*

 

[Roll farms]

You can use goat milk or cow milk, I pretty much use them interchangeably.

I don't think extra food makes milk extra rich, if that were the case you could give the best stuff to an Alpine and up their butterfat, but it doesn't work that way.
Ea. doe's butterfat content is different, w/ similarities in breeds but it varies even then.

A heavy producer does take more time to bounce back, she hasn't even peaked on her lactation yet (usually around 21 days after kidding, when kids would begin drinking the most) so she's going to lose ground until after that, more than likely.

My 2.5 mos fresh does are JUST starting to gain some condition back.

Alfalfa, alfalfa, alfalfa.....if you can't get the real thing, use pellets or cubes (chopped up). A bit of calf manna helps, too. Some of mine love it, others hate it.

What breed is she?

 

[savingdogs]

Mini nubian.

Well we do have plenty of alfalfa pellets, she doesn't care for them that much but I'll offer all she will eat. Thanks for warning me about the 21 days and getting worse before she gets better.

The doeling is doing much better as well, thank you so much for your help!