Electrical fencing issues

[pete495]

Hello,

I live in Central Pennsylania near Williamsport, PA, the home of the little league world series. I am just looking for opinions on electrical fencing. It has been very dry here the last month with very little rain. Ironically we got flooded out of our old home last year. We bought this place, which is a 9 acre farm last October. Last month we started to get the fence electrically ready. It was actually ready to begin with because it had cows on the land, and the fence was operating fine. It was hooked to a 100mile charger, and 10 guage lead out wire to high tensile aluminum wire fencing around the pasture. The owners took their charger with them, so we bought a new one, a Zareba 25 mile fencing charger. I removed the 10 guage wires because they were old as dirt. I installed 2 six foot grounding rods, and one 8 foot grounding rod, all 10 feet apart. The grounding rods are hooked to each other, and grounded the fencing charger appropriately. The hot wire to the fence is wrapped standardly 8 times around each of our 3 strings of wire to the fence.

Well the 25 mile fencing charger did not do the job, so I bought a 100 miles charger. Really, I had no additional luck. After this I installed the 3rd grounding rod, which is 8 feet. Tonight, a friend of mine told me to pore water on the grounding rods since it has been so dry. I went ahead and did that. It worked! Immediately after, I could feel a charge on the fence line. Unfortunately it did not last. So the question becomes what to do next. It has been really dry here the last month, but I want the fence to work even when it is dry. Do I need deeper grounding rods? More grounding rods? higher guage lead out wire? Should I switch the grounding rod positions? I have springs on the property and was thinking of putting them closer to the springs. Of course this would be more costly because they are quite a distance away from the charger.

Just wondering what other may think.

Thanks.

Pete495

 

[bjjohns]

You might want to read the end of this thread. You have grounding issues.

 

[bjjohns]

You might want to read the end of this thread. You have grounding issues.

OK, that was kind-of nasty of me to post, here is what is happening:

Your fencer needs a ground to determine reference. The weaker the ground the worse the reference. In "ideal conditions (engineering term)" non-grounded situation you can grab the positive and the negative of a fencer and never feel a shock.

A positive / negative fence helps alleviate this in dry conditions, but does not solve the problem. Your fencer grounds HAS TO HAVE great contact to work, and ideally you need the amount of ground contact required (usually expressed in # of ground rods) as well as wet dirt (all the way to the bottom of the ground) for it to even come close to working.

How to fix it.

Run Positive & Negative fence.
In drought conditions trickle water your ground rods.
ALWAYS follow your fence controllers grounding suggestions, even if it does not make sense to you.
Water your grounds whenever you even begin to think the earth is dry.

NB: A/C powered fence chargers, when tied to your home electrical system (where else would you get 110?), and when the ground get dry will back feed through the best ground, like your home land line phone. If you pick up your phone and hear clicking, this is what is happening. Phone systems tend to be better grounded than A/C systems.

 

[kfacres]

you need to drive the ground rods atleast far enough down into the perm water table.. 6' won't do it.. that could hit the temp watertable, but most likely not... atleast 10'. The best way is to have one cold wire on the fence, and have a ground rod in that location as well--- in the lowest point on the property--- like the bottom of a ditch. 4 ground rods need to be used...

I was going to tell you the 25 mile fencer-- is junk-- but then you read my mind...

I have a 100 and a 200 mile box-- the same brand.. my 200 will put out the pop-- as will the 100. I've seen both shoot a spark an inch to a good grounded peice of steel.

 

[goodhors]

And with this weather even a long ground rod, 8ft is size for us, you may need to water them for good contact.

We are watering our ground rods, is is DRY. In my specific area, you are never going to hit a water
table with a 6-8ft ground rod. But normally not needed, since the dirt is a dense clay that is always
damp at that depth.

Do you have a good contact with ground wire to rod? Those clamps often oxidize with two
kinds of metals touching, can need changing or oxidation rubbed off for good contact.

 

[bjjohns]

you need to drive the ground rods atleast far enough down into the perm water table.. 6' won't do it.. that could hit the temp watertable, but most likely not... atleast 10'.

That's not really true. My permanent water table is MUCH deeper than what I can drive a ground, by about 30 feet. It's a matter of getting the amount of ground contact the fence controller manufacturer recommends. One of mine requires 18' of ground rod spread against at least 3 rods spaced 5 feet apart. Another one just says two ground rods.

 

[kfacres]

you need to drive the ground rods atleast far enough down into the perm water table.. 6' won't do it.. that could hit the temp watertable, but most likely not... atleast 10'.

That's not really true. My permanent water table is MUCH deeper than what I can drive a ground, by about 30 feet. It's a matter of getting the amount of ground contact the fence controller manufacturer recommends. One of mine requires 18' of ground rod spread against at least 3 rods spaced 5 feet apart. Another one just says two ground rods.

clearly the people who are driving ground rods in-- but in this drought-- and it isnt' working-- is for a reason...

The whole principle of a ground rod is to make sure it is moist so the electric current will flow through that animal's body to make the shock.

If your ground is dry as flour-- like most is right now--- it won't matter if your ground rod is 10" or 100'. It WON'T SHOCK.

Out west, where it's not uncommon to have a serious drought 6 out of 10 years-- they don't really even use ground rods-- they use the fence it'self as ground. Alternating hot and cold wires-- so that when the animal touches the fence-- the volt jumps from hot wire to cold wire- through the animal... and shocks them. The main reason being that a hard, super dry hoof.. isn't going to do much contact with the hard dry, sandy dirt on the ground-- unless she's standing in a puddle of pee.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I saw someone using a 6 gallon plastic water container with a tiny hole at the bottom of it, set near their ground rod to water it daily during the drought.

 

[redtailgal]

Yes, we "water' our ground rods when its very dry, we've also put them near the gutter line, where the ground stays wet longer.

Our water table is so deep that there is just no way to drive them that deep.

 

[secuono]

If you Google electric fencing, you will find the alternating + and - fence in itself like kfacres mentioned.
You have two options, water the rod or make the fence itself a charge and grounder.

My only issue was, don't they have to touch two wires, both the hot and cold, to get that charge? How many animals actually do that?