Eloise is EXTREMELY hard to milk! I need help!

[glenolam]

I got Eloise, a 5 yr old nubian/alpine cross doe, with her son (who is a wether) a year ago with the intent of milking her and making goat milk soap.

A little background: The prior year (2008) Eloise lost her kid right after birth. Eloise's sister refused her kid and amazingly Eloise took on her neice/nephew (I can't recall what it was) as if it were her own kid. The kid was eventually sold and everything went back to normal. When she had Junior last year she was very protective of him, which is why they were sold as a pair. (I have since become very good friends with Eloise's previous owner by the way.) I took Eloise and Junior home when he was 8 weeks old, and tried to start milking right away, but she was very insistant that I don't touch her. I assumed it was alot of stress going from the home she knew to mine and that she was making sure Junior got all of her milk. I had Eloise's previous owner come to my house and help me milk her, which she was able to do, but I never was able to.

Eloise just kidded with twin does on Tuesday 4/6, and her bag and teats are completely full. The two girls are definitely not nursing her dry, so I want to start getting her on a milking schedule. She let me assist after the birth - I was allowed to pretty much do anything I wanted and helped the kids find the teats. I even was allowed to milk her so there was no plug for the kids.

I put her on the stand on Wedensday, gave her grain and carrotts to entice her, but she kicked and jumped all around. I didn't want to stress her out, so I let her off after trying for 10 minutes. Last night I put her back on the stand and had to have my husband come out and hold her front leg up so she wouldn't have the stability to jump all around. After a few minutes, she calmed down and while he held her leg up and petted her I milked 2 3/4 cups of milk from her as quickly as I possibly could. She was quiet for most of the time - as soon as she started talking we let her down so we wouldn't stress her.

I have no idea what to do to make her know that the stand is my time to milk her and there's no way to get around it. I'm nice to her, give her treats (our goats are very spoiled!) and even put the babies on the stand with me to show her that it's OK and it's milking time, but I don't want to have my husband hold her leg every time to milk.

What can I do to calm her down and let me milk her?!? Her previous owner said she never had problems like this....

Here's a picture of her with her girls

 

[ksalvagno]

Cute little goats. I don't have a lot of milking experience and recently bought a doe in milk that stands really nice for me. I would say for now to have your husband come out and hold her or else get hobbles and hobble her. I would hope in time she would calm down and just stand for you alone. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in with some other suggestions.

Maybe she recognizes your nervousness or apprehension or something and acts up. Maybe she is seeing who is boss or what she can get away with. I'm really not sure.

Do you have an actual milking stand? It makes a difference when you have their head held so they can't get away. I also used a mason (canning) jar so if she moved around, I wouldn't lose the milk and could move with her.

 

[glenolam]

I have a metal milking stand, which I was so proud of when I purchased it, but now it's gotten no use!

The stand is actually behind me in the pic of me helping them nurse. I keep it in the goat barn so she's familiar with it and it's not something foreign.

I also have a yr old doeling that I'm going to breed this year and start milking next year.

I try to calm myself before going in and milking her. This is my first time milking anything on my own but I got plenty of practice at her previous owner's house. I wanted to be sure I was doing it right before I did it at my house.

I tell you, it is pretty frustrating, to say the least, and I definitely don't want to make this stressfull for her when she's just kidded. I constantly tell her her girls are OK (they are usually sleeping under the stand or under the haybale holder at this point) - I even put the girls in front of her so she can see they're OK.

I don't want to give up...yet!

 

[Roll farms]

At the risk of sounding like a meanie-head....quit letting the goat be your boss.

As long as she sees that kicking, fussing, etc. will be tolerated, she will continue to do so. Goats are a lot like dogs, you have to let them know what's acceptable and that there are boundaries...and punishment.

Spray her in the face w/ a spray bottle...pinch her ear...hobble her...find something that's not downright abusive that she dislikes and use it to make her stop showing her butt.

I've honestly never worried about a doe 'stressing' after kidding, so long as she and the kids are healthy / normal. Mine get 1 week to shape up on the stand or they ship out...there have only been 2 (out of 40 or so) that I just couldn't train w/ patience and a firm hand...
Again, I'm not saying to beat her w/ a stick or anything, and it's not being 'mean' to let her know that her bad behavior is unacceptable.

Say it w/ me, "I AM THE BOSS"

 

[freemotion]

The only way, besides what RF said, is to persist and get more proficient and confident yourself. What you are experiencing is not that uncommon, apparently, for newbies! Do a search on this site...there are other threads about milking and tears (ours, not the goat's!). That the doe is good for her previous owner and not you tells me that you just need more experience. You are doing fine, keep going!

I'd say, keep doing what you are doing, with your hubby's help. You are fortunate in that you don't HAVE to milk her out. You can use this time to learn and for her to get used to you and not worry about emptying her udder.

It took me a while to figure out what I was doing (besides letting my alpha doe be alpha over me) that was irritating her while I was attempting to milk. Her single buckling got pneumonia and died, so I had to learn a lot quicker than I'd planned, and I had only books and the internet to help me. I cried a lot! I learned, eventually, that if I make sure to put NO downward pressure on the teat at all, she was much more comfortable. Ask anyone who hasn't milked before to show you how to milk, and they will do a pulling motion with their hand. Make sure you are not. Notice that her kids push upwards and bump her udder when they nurse.

When you can milk a quart in about a minute, she won't have time to get fussy about it! And don't worry that the twins aren't nursing her dry, it is ok.

Start working with that yearling's udder and behavior now....

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

what Free and Roll said...and there is a great thread called "kicky milker" which is really helpful

and as silly as it sounds... Roll is dead on and her advice helped me tremendously. say to yourself "i AM the boss goat!" ... mostly i think it will come across in your body language and it will get easier. my doe was "making" me give her corn to stand there. not anymore! i AM the boss goat and baby you'll get corn when i decide!

when our 2nd doe got all hoppy-aroundy and stepped in the bucket for no reason last summer i took her food and hobble her. she did it twice. then stood there quietly.

i'm not sure its mean... you just need to be the boss of all of them

good luck!

 

[glenolam]

You both are so funny! I don't think you are being mean at all.

I know I need to be more assertive and confident. It's just getting difficult and I REALLY want to do this. Eloise sure has a strong and persistant attitude.

I had to practically drag her up on the stand yesterday and then just held my hands on her hips for a while, slowly moving them towards her udder. That's when I called the hubby in. She was previously milked from behind (arms between her back legs) - should I continue with trying how she is used to being milked or should I just try my own way?

I'm already working with my doeling, except she and Eloise don't get along very well, Eloise just tolerates her and for the time being Eloise won't let Fudgie (the doeling) near her or the kids. I'm going to continue working with Fudgie once the kids can spend more time outdoors.

 

[glenolam]

OMG - the thread about kicky milker was absolutely hilarious! I'm reading it at work and had to in bits and peices because I was laughing too much!

I'm going to try the hobble - I already have the "hubby hobble" down to a science and my 5 yr old son is learning that tecnique quickly as well!

Thanks for the help, tips and, most importantly, laughs! I'll be sure to keep you updated on my progress. It is funny how just when you feel all alone and that you're the only one who can't milk a fricken goat you get a whole herd of people with horror stories too!

 

[freemotion]

I needed a good laugh so you inspired me to look that thread up....it was stinkin' funny! So for all you lurkers, here it is: http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2767&p=1

 

[glenolam]

UPDATE!!!

I wouldn't exactly call it smooth, but it sure was successful!

As soon as I got home tonight I started saying "I AM the boss goat...I am THE boss goat...I am the BOSS goat!"

(Really I was like saying Please Please Please let this work!)

I walked into the goat barn, told her how it was going to be, put her on the stand (I think she knew I meant business) and closed the stanchion. I filled up the grain bucket and said "LISTEN. I am the boss. You will let me milk you."

She was looking at me like "what?"

So I gave her the grain and sat down next to her and tried to start milking. She gave up quite a fight, and I had probably 8 oz in the bucket when she walloped a good one on my hand and I lost almost all of it. So I told her again, "I am in charge and you WILL let me milk you!" I pressed my shoulder against her front shoulder to hold her against the wall so she couldn't kick as easily (hubby is away with the son tonight so I had no help).

I started singing songs to her to the tune of "I'm a little tea pot" - seems she liked that because next thing I knew she calmed down and I was milking her! All by myself! Had to do it one-handed but she let me switch between teats and within probably 5-10 min I walked out of there with 20 oz (for people like me that's 2 1/2 cups) of milk!!! ALL BY MYSELF!!!

And I know I got more out of her than that because I was trying to milk as she kicked just so she could see that I meant business and alot ended up on me, the stand, her, the ground, the walls, etc!

Needless to say I am way too proud of myself! After I stopped I gave her tons of hugs and kisses, let her finish eating and brushed her. Then I got the best reward - her two girls romping all over me having a great time!

What a good start to the weekend!