Evaluating Possible LGD

[LoneOakGoats]

For all you seasoned LGD owners......What would you say are the top things to look for when evaluating/testing a possible LGD? I say "possible" for those that may get a dog they know nothing about at all.
For example:
While leashed, on the initial walk thru, is the lgd showing aggression towards the livestock?
Is the lgd more interested in following you back into the house than staying with the livestock?
Does the dog show interest in the livestock at all?


I have been think about this lately and know there are lots of people that get a dog on a sale site and know nothing about it. They throw it out in the pasture with sheep or chickens thinking all will be well only to return later and either the dog is hiding in the corner of the barn, or has attacked and killed everything it could catch. I know there are those that turn out wonderful no doubt about it.

I just curious what you look for when trying to decide which dog fits your needs. We have a wonderful guardian that we've have for several years. I went to the farm where he was working, watched him interact with the livestock etc. so I knew what to expect. But unfortunately, there are those that do not.
Thanks for any input!

 

[Latestarter]

I think you pretty much covered it in your final para... It would be best in the case of an adult dog to go to the owner's and watch the dog and see what you'll be purchasing. This could also work with a younger animal that has been in a "working" environment. I don't see how you'd be able to do this with a puppy, but you could get some idea from seeing the parent stock perform and if the parents are successful LGDs, the longer you can leave the pup with the parents, to learn from them, the better off your potential LGD will be. Keep in mind that YOU will still need to train to the job you intend for the animal once you bring it home, regardless. I'm of a mind that the pup shouldn't be removed from the (working) parents until at least 12 weeks and 16 would be even better.

 

[BrendaMNgri]

You back up first and look a the breeder and the parents before you even look at the dog or pup. You ask for references. You never buy cheap or on sale. You demand proof of vaccinations, de wormings, vet check. You go on site to see the dogs, parents, breeder, and you observe as you say you have.

Unfortunately with the surge in fad binge breeding of LGDs what you describe in your first post is going on - rampantly. People want something for nothing, well hey folks, before you get all excited about that freebie Pyr - you get what you pay for. Be careful what you wish for you may get it. To give you comparison, let me spell out my operation in a nutshell here.

Granted my two breeds are rare and not cheap - $1200-1500 a pup. But worth every penny (and many breeders charge more than I do). Backed with lifetime replacement health guarantees and breeder support. I demand applications be filled out. I heavily screen potential customers and trust me even then I still have some go south or turn out bad. But it culls out the obvious bad ones.

I have imported dogs over from Europe since 2009. I have multi generations here. On my place, prospective buyers or those who have successfully completed a puppy application, come to see both parents and the entire litter. My dogs are raised in a pack, a huge family. Pups are handled from birth. Immersed in the pack and put in the barn typically with the sheep and heifers at 3 weeks, once eyes have opened (severe weather may put this off a week in some cases).

Typically no one comes to see my pups until they are 6 weeks old when I allow people to begin to pick their pups. They are encouraged to sit down in the barn with the whole pack and litter, and we discuss at length the personalities of the individual pups and what the buyer's comfort zone is, and needs, etc.. And needless to say prior to this has been several phone conversations and E mails. I have done this long enough so as to be able to pick out certain aspects in a pup that I feel would be a good match for a certain buyer, and 9 times out of 10, it is the match for them. And sometimes the pup even picks the owner! Buyers are shown photos of grandparents and if they want to see papers, are shown registration papers and given a copy if needed.

I never have shy pups hanging back in a corner because of the way I raise my pups. Even the more aloof ones, are still out there smack in the middle in the mix.

What is most important is transparency with the breeder. If a breeder lies to you about where their brood stock came from, go elsewhere. If they cannot tell you how they raise the pups more than "oh I just toss them in the stock that's all you have to do" - bullpucky it is - keep shopping. Have expectations. Demand answers or go elsewhere. There are breeders out there who's websites are a lesson in deception, lies, packed with vague inferences and glaring omissions. Many times it is what they DON"T tell you that matters the most. I am an open book - to the point of being painfully open - I have lost many dogs over many years and they are all there on a memorial page. Guess what? Many people hide dog deaths or illnesses or are evasive about it. Again, go elsewhere. You need honesty, not a sham.

This is a huge investment for you, not a lark. You want to buy a dog that will grow up "straight and strong and true" - you don't need a train wreck, a badly bred dog or a dog reared so wrong that it is beyond salvation (and that can happen).

A good dog will be calm, confident, not overly aggressive, look you in the eye. Likewise a litter will not be pot bellied full of worms and parasites, crusty eyed, runny nosed, shy, thin, unkept. You should not be seeing the mother's rib cage nor should the father be lunging at you chained up to the barn. You need to do your research on breeds. Again another topic I could go into forever on, but won't here.

Ideally the breeder had a reason for breeding although with most backyard or flash in the pan breedings they don't. Money is not a good reason. Go elsewhere.

I could go on for years on this topic but will spare you. Just learn to train your eye for quality. Do not be cavalier about LGDs. They are a huge commitment and are not a hammer or a saw - they require years of training. They are expensive to feed and cannot be fed junk food in order to work well. Good fencing is a must and I'm sure you already know that. Too many people get one now because they literally think they HAVE to have one where they really don't need one, but only need better stronger fencing. They've become a fad, like a Beanie Baby or a fast car someone thinks they have to have in their driveway now in order to look like they are hep and cool and doing the sustainable farming 'thing' to the max. Got news for ya: LGDs can become a huge liability fast in the wrong or inexperienced hands. Please buy wisely or don't buy at all. Sounds like your first dog has been a success, I hope your second choice is as good and works well too.

 

[BrendaMNgri]

PS forgot to mention above as in another thread my pups don't leave till 12 weeks of age.