reinbeau
Ridin' The Range
Please help a wannabee goat owner out. I've heard this word, it sounds bad-what does it mean if a goat 'founders'?
'Foundered'
- Thread starter reinbeau
- Start date
GrassFarmerGalloway
Melts for all babies
It means they bloat. It is serious because it causes the goat to suffucate from the pressure of gas building in the rumen. The cure depends upon the severity. Light cases could be as simple as walking them around to encourage burping, maybe sticking a stomach tube down the throat (while this is done, give mineral oil), to actually sticking a sharp object into the side of the goat, into the rumen, to let out the gas (emergency measure).reinbeau said:
To prevent, avoid sudden changes to rich feed, like alfalfa and grain and wet, lush grass. Balance out the above with nice, dry, fiberous hay.
Farmer Kitty
True BYH Addict
No, foundering is a laminitis of the hooves.
Here is what WRB had found and posted on one of the cow threads.
I had been told (by a vet) that a cows laminitis is a little different but, basically the same as a horse, goat, etc. founder but, the vet told the member who had enquired that they are the same. But, either way this info should be pretty close.
Here is what WRB had found and posted on one of the cow threads.
I hope this helps.WildRoseBeef said:
I had been told (by a vet) that a cows laminitis is a little different but, basically the same as a horse, goat, etc. founder but, the vet told the member who had enquired that they are the same. But, either way this info should be pretty close.
- Thread starter
- #4
reinbeau
Ridin' The Range
So if the goat has foundered, is it always fatal? I don't quite get the severity of it, does it kill, or does it cause the animal to have to be put down? Every time?
Farmer Kitty
True BYH Addict
No, we had a cow that had laminitis and she recovered and I know of a horse that did too. I believe, it depends on the severity.
zatsenoughcritters4me
Many Critters
got this from a website...
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/founderingoats.html
FOUNDER IN GOATS
Laminitis and its subsequent result, Founder, are diseases found in intensively-managed herds of goats. The usual cause is simple -- improper feeding. One of the many bad effects of overfeeding processed/sacked grains or feed that is too high in grain-induced energy ("hot" feeds) is Founder. A goat that has foundered will walk on calloused front knees and will have very overgrown hooves; the animal will have difficulty walking flat on the soles of its hooves because the bones in the feet have rotated out of normal position, shifting weight bearing to its heels. The hooves may feel hot to the touch, especially near the coronary band where the hoof wall meets the leg. Acute Laminits/Founder produces hooves that are sore and hot; when the condition becomes chronic, the bones of the feet become malformed and the hooves are overgrown. Chronic Founder is the type most often seen in goats. Founder is is not curable but it can be managed -- with great effort -- for the duration of the life of the goat. The term "founder" derives from the sinking of the bones in the hoof.
When a producer overfeeds grain concentrates, one of the bad things that can happen is that the laminae of the hoof is affected. "Laminitis" is the term used to describe the initial outbreak of the disease when the laminae become inflamed and break down, releasing its hold on the bones in the hoof. "Founder" describes the resulting downward rotation of the third phalanx bone in the hoof. The laminae is a web of tissue and blood vessels that holds the bones of the hoof in place. When the laminae breaks down, the blood vessels will either collapse or flood the hooves with blood, releasing the bones from their proper positions. When the third phalanx bone rotates downward, it may actually penetrate the sole of the hoof -- making walking very difficult for the goat because weight bearing has been shifted to its heels. Usually the front feet are first affected, but a severely foundered goat will walk on its front knees with its back legs uncharacteristically forward under its body. Abnormal hoof growth also occurs. The toes turn up -- growing into a "pixie-shoe" shape. A foundered hoof has thick walls, extra material on the sole, and grows abnormally fast and irregularly in shape -- for the rest of the life of the goat.
The origins of Founder trace back to improper feeding and may also occur in conjunction with other medical conditions. Show goats and other obese/overfed goats are prime candidates for Laminitis/Founder. Overfeeding a high-energy diet or feeding a concentrated grain regimen with low-to-no-roughage sets the stage for this illness. The actual culprit is usually Ruminal Acidosis. Acidic (lactic acidosis) or bacterial (enterotoxemia) changes in the rumen brought on by improper feeding set the chain of events into motion that causes Laminitis/Founder. Roughage/long fiber (weeds, leaves, grass hay) act as a buffer to this reaction, keeping the proper pH balance in the rumen. A sudden change in nutrition levels, an imbalance in the concentrate-to-forage ratio, or an unanticipated change in forage quality are all possible culprits. How the producer feeds, how much he feeds, and how the feed is processed are important. Appropriate amounts of grains that are highly digestable should be fed. Example: Dry rolled grains are less digestible than moist or ground grains.
Laminitis can be the immediate result of a nutritional fiasco or can be delayed by several weeks. It is possible to have a goat down, bring it back to apparent health, and have it founder weeks later. Individual goats may react differently to feeding methods that sometimes result in Laminitis/Founder. Some animals will develop Overeating Disease, some will go into Ruminal Acidiosis, and others will founder immediately. Laminitis/Founder can also occur when a goat is moved from poor to lush forage, either seasonally at home or across country. A fat goat that is forced to walk or run on hard-packed ground in the name of "show conditioning" is likely to develop Laminitis/Founder. Heat stress, complications of kidding (mastitis, uterine infection, retained placenta), and pneumonia can lead to Laminitis/Founder.
For currently unknown reasons, identical feeding methods can result in different illnesses from goat to goat within the same herd. Producers raising goats in managed or confined conditions should consult a qualified goat nutritionist and have a feed ration developed appropriate to their locations, climate, herd density, and management styles. The most complicated thing about raising goats is proper nutrition.
A recently-foundered goat is more likely to be successfully treated for the problems resulting from Founder. At early onset of Founder, immersing the goat's hooves in ice water will constrict the blood vessels, forcing blood out of the hooves before too much damage is done. Ice-water immersion of hooves should be continued until the hooves are no longer hot to the touch. The goat will likely cooperate because the procedure brings relief. If the goat has been foundered for quite a while, the hoof pain will have produced calloused knees -- the goat will be walking on its knees -- -- and the muscles in the legs will have shortened. How long the goat has been foundered is a question that may never be answered if the animal is new to the herd.
To determine the extent of damage, x-ray the hooves to see how far the bones have rotated from their normal positions. If the rotation is severe, there is not much that can be done to help. Non-steriodal anti-inflammatory drugs like Banamine and Phenylbutazone (short term) and aspirin (long term) may be used to make the goat more comfortable and encourage movement. Both Banamine and Bute are rough on the digestive tract and should be used in limited amounts. Some prescription medications and nutritional supplements developed for foundered horses may be helpful in treating a foundered goat. Triquest Boer Goats (Paulette Wohnoutka -- 1-417-754-8135 -- www.triquestboergoats.com -- email: hoofrite@triquestboergoats.com) sells a nutritional supplement called HoofRite that contains essential elements that should assist in proper hoof growth. Consult a qualified goat veterinarian for advice and assistance concerning use of prescription medications.
A foundered goat should be slowly but certainly taken completely off grain concentrates and fed only quality grass hay and goat minerals until the disease is under control. It might be wise to use repeated dosages of Milk of Magnesia to help reduce the grain overload. Remember to keep the goat hydrated with electrolytes when using laxatives. Orally repopulating the gut with live bacteria by using a product like Goat Guard Probiotic Paste may assist in digesting the offending grain concentrates that are already present in the goat's body.
The two claws of each hoof need to be regularly and frequently trimmed as closely as possible -- almost down to the blood -- at least twice a month. Bone rotation within the hoof is relatively slow, so identifying early-onset Laminitis and frequently trimming the hooves can have a positive effect. The goat's hooves will always grow unusually fast and abnormally in shape for the rest of its life. Through repeated hoof trimming, the producer is trying to encourage the bones in the hooves to move back to their normal positions. This is a very long-term goal -- if it works at all in the late stages of Founder.
Exercise is critical to the health of a foundered goat. The goat must be made to stand on its hooves daily so that leg muscles do not constrict. A severely-foundered goat may have to be splinted daily for it to be able to stand.
Once again: Laminitis/Founder are, for the most part, preventable diseases that are usually caused by IMPROPER FEEDING.
The writer wishes to acknowledge the assistance of Robin Cotten of Sawtree Ridge Farm in Atoka, Tennessee and Jackie Nix, Goat Nutritionist at Sweetlix Livestock Supplements in Alabama in compiling the data used in this article.
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/founderingoats.html
FOUNDER IN GOATS
Laminitis and its subsequent result, Founder, are diseases found in intensively-managed herds of goats. The usual cause is simple -- improper feeding. One of the many bad effects of overfeeding processed/sacked grains or feed that is too high in grain-induced energy ("hot" feeds) is Founder. A goat that has foundered will walk on calloused front knees and will have very overgrown hooves; the animal will have difficulty walking flat on the soles of its hooves because the bones in the feet have rotated out of normal position, shifting weight bearing to its heels. The hooves may feel hot to the touch, especially near the coronary band where the hoof wall meets the leg. Acute Laminits/Founder produces hooves that are sore and hot; when the condition becomes chronic, the bones of the feet become malformed and the hooves are overgrown. Chronic Founder is the type most often seen in goats. Founder is is not curable but it can be managed -- with great effort -- for the duration of the life of the goat. The term "founder" derives from the sinking of the bones in the hoof.
When a producer overfeeds grain concentrates, one of the bad things that can happen is that the laminae of the hoof is affected. "Laminitis" is the term used to describe the initial outbreak of the disease when the laminae become inflamed and break down, releasing its hold on the bones in the hoof. "Founder" describes the resulting downward rotation of the third phalanx bone in the hoof. The laminae is a web of tissue and blood vessels that holds the bones of the hoof in place. When the laminae breaks down, the blood vessels will either collapse or flood the hooves with blood, releasing the bones from their proper positions. When the third phalanx bone rotates downward, it may actually penetrate the sole of the hoof -- making walking very difficult for the goat because weight bearing has been shifted to its heels. Usually the front feet are first affected, but a severely foundered goat will walk on its front knees with its back legs uncharacteristically forward under its body. Abnormal hoof growth also occurs. The toes turn up -- growing into a "pixie-shoe" shape. A foundered hoof has thick walls, extra material on the sole, and grows abnormally fast and irregularly in shape -- for the rest of the life of the goat.
The origins of Founder trace back to improper feeding and may also occur in conjunction with other medical conditions. Show goats and other obese/overfed goats are prime candidates for Laminitis/Founder. Overfeeding a high-energy diet or feeding a concentrated grain regimen with low-to-no-roughage sets the stage for this illness. The actual culprit is usually Ruminal Acidosis. Acidic (lactic acidosis) or bacterial (enterotoxemia) changes in the rumen brought on by improper feeding set the chain of events into motion that causes Laminitis/Founder. Roughage/long fiber (weeds, leaves, grass hay) act as a buffer to this reaction, keeping the proper pH balance in the rumen. A sudden change in nutrition levels, an imbalance in the concentrate-to-forage ratio, or an unanticipated change in forage quality are all possible culprits. How the producer feeds, how much he feeds, and how the feed is processed are important. Appropriate amounts of grains that are highly digestable should be fed. Example: Dry rolled grains are less digestible than moist or ground grains.
Laminitis can be the immediate result of a nutritional fiasco or can be delayed by several weeks. It is possible to have a goat down, bring it back to apparent health, and have it founder weeks later. Individual goats may react differently to feeding methods that sometimes result in Laminitis/Founder. Some animals will develop Overeating Disease, some will go into Ruminal Acidiosis, and others will founder immediately. Laminitis/Founder can also occur when a goat is moved from poor to lush forage, either seasonally at home or across country. A fat goat that is forced to walk or run on hard-packed ground in the name of "show conditioning" is likely to develop Laminitis/Founder. Heat stress, complications of kidding (mastitis, uterine infection, retained placenta), and pneumonia can lead to Laminitis/Founder.
For currently unknown reasons, identical feeding methods can result in different illnesses from goat to goat within the same herd. Producers raising goats in managed or confined conditions should consult a qualified goat nutritionist and have a feed ration developed appropriate to their locations, climate, herd density, and management styles. The most complicated thing about raising goats is proper nutrition.
A recently-foundered goat is more likely to be successfully treated for the problems resulting from Founder. At early onset of Founder, immersing the goat's hooves in ice water will constrict the blood vessels, forcing blood out of the hooves before too much damage is done. Ice-water immersion of hooves should be continued until the hooves are no longer hot to the touch. The goat will likely cooperate because the procedure brings relief. If the goat has been foundered for quite a while, the hoof pain will have produced calloused knees -- the goat will be walking on its knees -- -- and the muscles in the legs will have shortened. How long the goat has been foundered is a question that may never be answered if the animal is new to the herd.
To determine the extent of damage, x-ray the hooves to see how far the bones have rotated from their normal positions. If the rotation is severe, there is not much that can be done to help. Non-steriodal anti-inflammatory drugs like Banamine and Phenylbutazone (short term) and aspirin (long term) may be used to make the goat more comfortable and encourage movement. Both Banamine and Bute are rough on the digestive tract and should be used in limited amounts. Some prescription medications and nutritional supplements developed for foundered horses may be helpful in treating a foundered goat. Triquest Boer Goats (Paulette Wohnoutka -- 1-417-754-8135 -- www.triquestboergoats.com -- email: hoofrite@triquestboergoats.com) sells a nutritional supplement called HoofRite that contains essential elements that should assist in proper hoof growth. Consult a qualified goat veterinarian for advice and assistance concerning use of prescription medications.
A foundered goat should be slowly but certainly taken completely off grain concentrates and fed only quality grass hay and goat minerals until the disease is under control. It might be wise to use repeated dosages of Milk of Magnesia to help reduce the grain overload. Remember to keep the goat hydrated with electrolytes when using laxatives. Orally repopulating the gut with live bacteria by using a product like Goat Guard Probiotic Paste may assist in digesting the offending grain concentrates that are already present in the goat's body.
The two claws of each hoof need to be regularly and frequently trimmed as closely as possible -- almost down to the blood -- at least twice a month. Bone rotation within the hoof is relatively slow, so identifying early-onset Laminitis and frequently trimming the hooves can have a positive effect. The goat's hooves will always grow unusually fast and abnormally in shape for the rest of its life. Through repeated hoof trimming, the producer is trying to encourage the bones in the hooves to move back to their normal positions. This is a very long-term goal -- if it works at all in the late stages of Founder.
Exercise is critical to the health of a foundered goat. The goat must be made to stand on its hooves daily so that leg muscles do not constrict. A severely-foundered goat may have to be splinted daily for it to be able to stand.
Once again: Laminitis/Founder are, for the most part, preventable diseases that are usually caused by IMPROPER FEEDING.
The writer wishes to acknowledge the assistance of Robin Cotten of Sawtree Ridge Farm in Atoka, Tennessee and Jackie Nix, Goat Nutritionist at Sweetlix Livestock Supplements in Alabama in compiling the data used in this article.
- Thread starter
- #7
reinbeau
Ridin' The Range
Ah, so this sounds like a grain-feeding problem mainly. Ruminates don't do well with grain, from what I understand. Thank you for the info.
()relics
Overrun with beasties
a foundered horse can be very bad some are bad enough to be lame/ non-riders the rest of their lives....I guess I never heard of a foundered goat being that much of a problem...Hoof trimming would be the answer? I guess maybe founder in goats isn't so much a problem because they don't weigh 1000#+ like horses...I'll be watching this thread for more info on this..
zatsenoughcritters4me
Many Critters
I think goat people worry more about foot rot. not that foundering can't be a problem if it happens, I know foot rot is not good at all, have to keep the feet trimmed and dry pastures.()relics said:
