Garlic Barrier, Copper Oxide For Worms

[Baymule]

What do you do when chemical wormers aren't working anymore? Lately, the ivermectin wormer I have been using just didn't seem to be doing much. I have been having a conversation with @mysunwolf about the terrible worm problem she has had. She and I both ordered Garlic Barrier about the same time. I read about Garlic Barrier in an ad in Acres USA magazine. I thought, why not and ordered a gallon. I PM'd mysunwolf what I had done after reading her lament of the worm problem she had, so she ordered some too.

http://www.garlicbarrier.com/sheep.html

I have used the Garlic Barrier 3 times, 4 -5 days apart. I have 12 sheep, counting lambs. I mixed a half cup of Garlic Barrier with a half cup of Olive Oil and mixed it well with some feed. They scarfed it up and licked the pan. I checked eyelids and they have gone from a light pink to a dark pink. One ewe still had medium pink eyelids, so the last time I dosed them, I let her climb the fence (she loves to do this to get treats) and eat out of the bucket, just to make sure she got her share.

The Garlic Barrier seems to be working well for my sheep so far. mysunwolf seems to be getting mixed results. I think I read in an old post that @bonbean01 also uses Garlic Barrier. @bonbean01 will you tell us your results with this.

@mysunwolf is thinking about using copper oxide for her sheep. Has anybody done this with sheep and what were your results?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Bon isn't on BYH often/at all but I know she switched to a chemical dewormer. I am pretty she doesn't use the garlic barrier anymore.

Are you monitoring fecal counts of just going off of FAMACHA?

 

[Baymule]

Just going off FAMACHA. I need to learn how to run fecals.

 

[Bossroo]

While sheep need a little bit of copper in their diet from forage, grasses, and grains. Any excess amount and you run the risk of copper poisoning. As for garlic, you may or may not get the results that you whant. I would run a fecal and then treat with a commercial wormer with guaranteed dosage of the active ingredient for the specific worm that you want to eliminate.

 

[mysunwolf]

Thanks @Baymule for starting this thread. For me, the Southeast climate is my biggest challenge. Coupled with the fact that there are a limited number of chemical wormers available for sheep, we could see some issues in the next few decades. Worst case, flocks will self-select for hardiness at that time and there will be few to no sheep left. Best case, more classes of wormers will be released in this country.

@Bossroo, Copper Oxide Wire Particles are not the same formulation as Copper Sulfate, but you're right, there is a high level of risk when dosing sheep with any copper products. Bay has suggested the use of dolomitic lime as a free choice supplement to help prevent toxicity issues, I'm going to look into that for sure. All of my adult ewes have been dosed with CWPs this year, I will certainly keep everyone updated as to their health and, if any die, I'll let you know what the necropsy report is. A small sample research flock, as it were.

I like the idea of using everything at our disposal in combination. If chemical wormers even have 75% effectiveness, they can continue to be used, but it would be nice to give them a "boost" by using other potential tools. I'm going to give lespedeza pellets a try again next summer, in addition to the use of Garlic Barrier, and possibly small amounts of CWP in the lambs (which I have been reluctant to do this year, since lambs can absorb larger quantities of copper in their diet than ewes).

We are using a combination of FAMACHA and fecal counts to decide when to worm. Mostly, using FAMACHA and at least two wormers at once. Then doing group fecals, and re-evaluating. Lambs tend to get wormed quite a bit more than adults. Adults are wormed 2-4 times a year, lambs are 3-10 times a year depending on the individual and the season (ex. the past 3 years have been extremely wet here). We will integrate parasite resistance into our culling program once we have enough sheep in the pool, keeping track of lines as we go and worming data for each lamb and adult to make better decisions in the future.

I would love to hear about anyone else's programs, trials and tribulations! Especially those of you living in the Southeast, next to waterways, or using irrigated pastures.

 

[Roving Jacobs]

I use copasure boluses with my sheep regularly and am pleased with my results. But I also have high levels of various things that reduce copper in my water and soil so I'm at very low risk of overdosing on copper (I actually feed a mineral with copper in it to my sheep because I've had some signs of copper deficiency.). Copper tolerance is also highly variable by breed. I would probably never risk it with a texel or suffolk.

 

[Baymule]

Thank you for your input @Roving Jacobs . Yes, we still need to use the chemical wormers, but having a alternative to use alongside wormers can only help. Can you give more detail of how you use the copper boluses, dosage, how often, etc. I know there is a danger of too much copper.

I have read Pat Colby's books, Natural Sheep Care and Natural Goat Care. I just can't bring myself to mix copper sulphate penhydrate (sp?) in her sheep mineral recipe. She says to keep Dolomite lime out free choice, it cancels the toxicity of the copper. But I just can't do it. The sheep have Purina Sheep Mineral, Dolomite and Azomite free choice.

I think I remember @The Old Ram Australia uses a mineral mix based loosely on Pat Colby's mineral recipe. T.O.R. your thoughts and recommendations?

 

[Eteda]

Just a note.... If you are looking for a good chemical wormer to use, Cydection (moxidectin) pour on for cattle works good for me. It is used orally in sheep and goats. (off label of course) It is in the Ivermectin family, but is is better for sheep than Ivermectin my vet said. I've been using it for over ten years. It has up to a 90 day residual effect on some of the worms. which is better than a 14 or 30 day like other wormers. I do find that I have to dose it higher than what it calls for for cattle. I can't wait until the long acting injectable cydection makes it to the USA. Right now it can not be shipped through customs. However the long acting ivermection is avaliable through prescription and should work good in goats. None of my adult sheep are for eating purposes They are just for pets. However I do not think cydection has any meat or milk withdrawal period, but Im not sure. I use safeguard for tapeworms at the same time.

 

[Baymule]

Just a note.... If you are looking for a good chemical wormer to use, Cydection (moxidectin) pour on for cattle works good for me. It is used orally in sheep and goats. (off label of course) It is in the Ivermectin family, but is is better for sheep than Ivermectin my vet said. I've been using it for over ten years. It has up to a 90 day residual effect on some of the worms. which is better than a 14 or 30 day like other wormers. I do find that I have to dose it higher than what it calls for for cattle. I can't wait until the long acting injectable cydection makes it to the USA. Right now it can not be shipped through customs. However the long acting ivermection is avaliable through prescription and should work good in goats. None of my adult sheep are for eating purposes They are just for pets. However I do not think cydection has any meat or milk withdrawal period, but Im not sure. I use safeguard for tapeworms at the same time.

What dosage do you use?

 

[Eteda]

I use 7ml per 100 lbs of body weight as a base. my Hair sheep barbado non pregnant ewe gets 7ml. my 175 dorper ewe gets about 15 but that is what she takes. The 204 lb ram gets 20. I have a alpacca scale. I weigh each sheep. I make notes as to what I gave each one. If some body doesn't get enough I up the dose by 1 ml and redose if bottle jaw is present , sometimes within 24-48 hours. the more fat the more wormer i've learned. the more lean meat the less. You are not supposed to use it on any less than 4 months old but I do. If they are chewing a cud a real cud. not that first week chewing spit and sand stuff, lol. I use pyrantel pamoate or fenbendazole at two weeks old up until I need to use something better. I do not see any reason to wait until the animal is infested with worms to start worming. I do preventative worming in my lambs to get them off to a good start. However as they grow and become resistant due to being healthy I slack off. Some only need worming once every 3 months or less. some of the older sheep twice a year. I am trying to lean to do my own fecals. I like pink noses. I have used other wormers. valbazen, levemazol or how ever they are spelled, but I haven't had the good results I get with the cydection. I am wanting to try the injectable moxidectin. or dectomax. I just haven't gotten around to it.
L-ringers is only through a vet hear. Make sure to get a line set with it. AND the little gadget that connects the line to the needle. It makes it so much easier if you have one. you will need to put a box of needles with it. I use 3/4 twenty gauge. You are supposed to discard the needle after you administer it and flush a few drops out and put on another sterile needle so it is ready to go and bacteria cant grow. I administered it behind the collar in the neck / wither area. one sheep I put it in her rump area because the neck area needed a rest. Pink noses are a good thing!!! LOL.