Goats? Sheep? Both?

[kroberts]

Hi All,

I'm new here and have some questions on goats and sheep. I've been wanting to raise goats for years and I now finally have the space to do it. My concern is, I'm not sure my place is really ideal for goats. I have 40 acres. It is all pasture. No trees or shrubs. Lots of weeds and grass. Can a goat be healthy on this type of feed? I expect to buy feed in the winter but I had hoped they could just browse all spring/summer to keep costs down.

I'm wondering if my type of land is better for sheep? I had considered Icelandics. I'm just not sure what will do best here. I also can't decide if I want meat or dairy goats. I always thought I'd prefer dairy, but meat goats may be more marketable. Or I could get dairy girls and breed them to a meat boy?

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jodief100]

My goats do fine on weeds and grass. Before you pick- DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

Find out how much work each type is. We picked meat goats over dairy becuase we didn't want to be milking twice a day and the equipment and licensing costs for dairy were very high.

We considered sheep but didn't want to deal with shearing.

Find out what the market in your area is, where can you sell, how can you sell, what is the demand, legal requirements, how to care for the animals, what thier feed and health needs are, how many you can care for, cost and availablity of stock, equipment costs, housing needs, etc, very long list........

FYI: I know of several dairy farms that freshen thier milk does with meat bucks, it makes the "extra" kids more valuable on the meat market. They only breed back to dairy bucks when they want replacement stock.

If you run goats with wool sheep, the goat hair contaminates the wool making it less valuable. Not an issue with meat sheep or hair sheep.

 

[glenolam]

I prefer goats myself, but that's because I wanted goat milk....soap, cheese, butter, the possibilities are endless!

I would imagine your pastures are enough for the goats, as long as you have plenty of shelter for them to go in when it gets hot.

I know nothing about sheep, but my first thought is that you have to shear them, which is something you don't really have to do with goats (unless you are in a really hot climate with a breed of goat with thick fur....)

 

[chicken fruit]

I am a firm believer that animals should earn their keep. First in money, second in usefulness and if nothing else because they make you happy. The best scenario is a combination of all three, obviously.

Unless you're going to dairy the goats yourself then dairy goats would not be a good bet. But since thats not your interest I'd go with meat goats. They tend to do great on pasture- any goat will- but they TEND to do better than dairy breeds. And the goat meat market is growing exponentially in this country, we import a MASSIVE amount of goat meat simply because there's not enough produced here. Lamb is also on the rise!

Goats are browsers though, not grazers- goats in general I mean. pairing them with sheep is great, sheep tend to eat more grasses- things the goats are less inclined to eat.

Pasture is not just grass, there's other plants involved with pasture. Legumes and clovers and such. Every animals tends to eat different parts of the pasture- different plants out of the mix. You MAY need to over seed or reseed your pasture with a better mix for caprines, but it shouldnt be a huge issue. Especially if you keep goats and sheep together- it'll keep the less desirable plants from taking over the pasture as the goats eat down what they prefer.

meat goats are still personable and make decent companions. Goats will usually trump sheep in their people-person-ness. Dont get me wrong, sheep are wonderful, I prefer to them to goats in most situations.

All in all I think you'd be wise to select both species. You'd have better pasture management- and thus less feed maintenance.

There isnt as much movement in the fiber department as far as sheep go- but meat is still a strong market. Especially in the north east.

I'd do meat breeds of both- or at least a good duel sheep breed. Finer wool would probably be a better choice if you have it to make. Certain merino lines are much heavier in body and dress out fairly well.

Yeah, Iam still going to suggest you go with both.

And yes, believe it or not you CAN raise meat animals without grain.

 

[kroberts]

Wow, thanks so much for all your input.

I will expand a bit more on my conditions here. I live in Colorado in the plains. Very windy here. So good buildings will be important to protect whatever animals I choose. I expect I'll need to store hay for the winter months. I'd like them to have as natural of a diet as possible and therefore would like to avoid grain as much as I can. Of course, I still want them to be happy and healthy so if they need it, they need it.

I initially wanted dairy goats for the reason mentioned already by glenolam: milk, cheese, soap, yogurt... However, I have to do more research into marketing. I'd prefer to wholesale soap to someone because I don't like to deal with a lot of people. I get too nervous. Though I could manage if I need to. (I am something of a hermit I guess) To sell actual goat milk here, you have to sell "goat shares" because raw milk sales are not legal. However, I think I could barter with friends for things I need in exchange for dairy products.

From what I've read, as was said by Chicken Fruit, there is a high demand for goat meat. I am assuming the best way to market is to take them to the market auction. But I would expect individuals to want to purchase as well. And I agree. Animals should earn their keep.

Icelandic sheep are hair sheep and fairly low maintenance. They are quite dual purpose from what I understand: meat, milk, fiber. So I think there would be various ways to market them.

Now, when I mention marketing, I don't mean to imply that I hope to get rich off these animals. Honestly, I would be quite happy for them to provide food for my family and cover their own expenses. Any profit beyond that is just gravy. I don't know if it is reasonable to expect much profit with the amount of land I have. Naturally, I can run more sheep/goats than cattle, but there are still limits.

I do like the idea of doing both. Using a Boer buck with dairy girls would be a good way to go, I'm thinking. And if I can run both goats and sheep together for the benefit of both, that would be great. I do understand that they have different nutritional needs so I would need to stay on top of that.

I thought about dividing my pasture into three separate pastures so I can rotate the animals. Should help keep parasites at a minimum.

I guess my main concern was that there are no trees and shrubs for goats to munch. I worried that would be a problem. I'm glad to know it isn't.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this. Very helpful.

 

[jodief100]

You will probebly want more than three pastures. Depending on goat breeds you may want to seperate bucks and does. Parasites are a big problem in goats and good pasture rotation is the best preventative.
Ideally, you want to rotate every 5 days to 2 weeks with a 60 day rest before reusing a pasture and not having a central feeding/water area. In reality how many of us have achived this-not many. I fence in 3-5 acre pastures try to add one more per year and use temporary electro net a lot.

I stockpile pasture for winter and only need to use hay when there is snow, which is not often here in N KY. Colorado is a different story. I have cool season grasses so they get a good growth spurt in the fall.

The meat market is growing and goat producers cannot fill current demand. Prices hit over $2.00/lb this winter and are still over $1.60 in June.

Find out if you have a market, auction or slaughterhouse nearby where you can sell them. If you have to transport them far away your costs just went WAY up. I do on farm sales but not enough to sell all my animals. See if on farm slughter is legal in your state and what the regulations are on selling processed animals. Look into local ethnic groceries to see if they would want to buy animals and see what you need to do to legally sell processed animals. Here in KY they have to be processed in a USDA facility and you need a food handlers license to deliver them.

If you are not good with people, auction is your best bet. I know, me and my dear hubby are both engineers, not exactly good with the social skills thing.

 

[kroberts]

Oddly enough, I've been *told* I am very good with people. I just have little patience for stupidity (which differs greatly from ignorance, which can be fixed). I am very blunt and say what I think. I get annoyed very easily when my sense of justice is rattled. lol (so now I sound like an evil ogre. I'm not; just prefer to keep to myself)

I just get along better with critters than people. Which is sort of pathetic, I know.

So how many animals can you properly contain in a five acre pasture? I don't want to over crowd anyone. Not good for critters or pasture. I'm curious how many animals I could keep on my land while still having happy, healthy animals. About 30 of the 40 is fenced. The other 10 has the house, garden and chicken coop. And lots of tall grass.

There is a sale barn not far from me actually. About two to three hours away anyhow. That isn't too bad. There is a little livestock auction right in my town, but I don't think that would be the best place to sell.

 

[jodief100]

Sounds like me, annoyed with stupidity and have a strong sense of right and wrong. I have described as honest to a fault. I prefer my dog to the company of most people.

How many animals an acre can hold depends on a variety of factors. What is growing there, how much of it there is, how fast it is growing, what other food they are getting, how big the animals are and where they are in their cycles (dry does need less than lactating etc.).

Good rule with goats is rotate when the grass is no less than 5 inches. I do not like to get that low. I am pretty conservative with rotating and usually do it at 10". I hear 6-8 goats per acre tossed around a lot. If you push the limits you will be in trouble come a dry year.

Local sale barn is probably not the best idea. See if the market 3 hours away has specific goat/ goat & sheep auctions. They may auction goats but if it is primarily a cattle sale, you won't get good prices.

 

[Beekissed]

Icelandic sheep are hair sheep and fairly low maintenance. They are quite dual purpose from what I understand: meat, milk, fiber. So I think there would be various ways to market them.

Icelandic sheep are not a hair sheep breed, but they are a good wool breed to raise.

Boer goats do very well on pasture, if you are looking for a good meaty goat breed.

 

[freemotion]

Why not have a herd of meat goats, and keep a couple or three dairy does for your own use and for soapmaking? It doesn't take much milk to make a batch of soap, so unless you are planning on making tons of the stuff, you can freeze the milk for later soapmaking and have enough milk for your family with a couple of good does in milk. You can breed them to your meat buck and sell the offspring with the others.

To give an example, I started with one lactating doe, and by the time I became proficient at cheesemaking, one was not enough for the two of us and some cheese to share with family. I have a second lactating doe now (first freshener, not really contributing a lot yet) and hope to have three next spring. Cheesemaking is awesome and gets easier with each batch. You need to be home for at least five hours for many of the aged cheese recipes, like the cheddars, romanos, etc. Not working with them the entire time, but being available when it is time to do the next step.

You could also rotate a herd of sheep through your pastures, or some cattle. If you keep some paddocks empty of animals in the fall, you may get some winter grazing until the snow covers it too deeply, but this can damage the pastures in some areas, packing the dirt down and damaging the roots. Depends on your area.

Stocking rates depend a lot on the quality of your pasture, which will improve with rotational grazing and mowing if you don't have enough animals to evenly mow it for you. I don't, so I mow, and my pasture is getting better each season. I am doing this on a tiny scale, working with two acres of land that was in terrible condition when we bought it.

I'm excited for you! Keep us posted on how things go.