Help - new goat we found has some issues

[pippy]

I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment.

Today my partner picked up a young goat/kid from where he works that had been hanging around the site for the last day or so.

Two big things about it that we need help with.

- Front legs are obviously not working as they should. Similar to a calf that you splint when the pastern are to weak at birth.
When we first looked at him he was essentially resting on his knees at all times to eat, and the were bowing outwards. We have put a splint on both front legs as a temporary measure to see if there is any improvement - and there is a little bit. He is now walking on his tippy toes, but I'm still a little concerned as he doesn't fully extend the knee joint either. I'm doing some stretchs on the knee because clearly it is tight.
Has anyone come across something similar and do you think I'm heading along the right path. Essentially we are giving him a chance to hang in (he is rather healthy looking good shiny coat bar the next issue and in good weight) however if he doesn't seem to do well we will put him down.

The next thing about him (i have horses) is that he appears to be covered in what I would call rain scald was he a horse. Exception being - its around his ears on the edges near the base of the ears, a little on the back of the neck, all 4 legs have it, and worst is around the nose - where it looks quite bad and had cracked through the skin surface - almost wart or sarcoid looking. Any clue theres?? I'll give him a wash in some betadine tomorrow as a start, and I put some vit E cream on his nose tonight for the crack.

The other plans we have in the pipelines for him is to de-horn as soon as we feel it is the right time (get him in better health) and to de-worm.

I have no idea how old - he stands about 40cm, and has tiny nobules of horns probably about 4-6mm up from the skin.

We have tied him up near the old doll house and put a bunch of hay in the house and he seemed happy walking around eating grass and bit an peices earlier, he is asleep in the house for now.

I would really appreciate any help. He doesn't scream vet to me, and I am quite capable of animal husbandry etc. so am confident in that assesment. But I do believe in quality of life and if he doesnt have it I will PTS.

 

[Roll farms]

Could you post a couple of pictures, standing near a human or something else that would give us an idea of his size and breed (a rough guess is better than no idea at all...).
If he's a 2 week old standard breed, he'll need different care from a 6 mo. old mini breed.

First off, the knee issue *could* be a selenium deficiency. I would get a shot of Bo Se in him ASAP and probably follow up with a second in a few days...dosage depends on weight...ask a vet.

Unfortunately, it could also be CAE.
http://www.goats4h.com/CAE.html

Also, goats are notorious for hanging themselves.
I never recommend tying them, especially to something they could climb up on / jump off of. JMHO....You may have extraordinary good luck with it....but I've heard too many horror stories.

The rain-rot-looking condition is more than likely mites or lice. Ivermectin should clear that up, but it won't be quick or go away with just one application....keeping the area clean and moist will help after treating w/ ivermectin.

There's a recent post on this site about it:
http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6537
And more info here:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig129

If he's under 1 mo. of age I would supplement his diet w/ milk...although it may be hard to determine his age. Again, pics would really help.

I would start him on some GOOD goat starter feed ASAP....offer him goat mineral....get him vaccinated w/ CDT ASAP. Take a fecal in to a vet to evaluate for Coccidia and see if he needs dewormed.

I've found *usually* the only goats who get infested that badly with mites have a compromised immune system. It sounds as if he's really young and if he's lost his mama, been upset, etc. that may have been enough to wear him down, and most goat parasites are opportunistic, they'll attack when goats are at their weakest because it's easy....so he needs good care now to help him overcome.

Good luck, please post a pic and keep us posted.

 

[glenolam]

Agreed with Roll - pictures would help determine more. If he's got little nubs for horns you wouldn't want to wait too long to disbud.

Did your partner or anyone else look around to see if they could determine where the kid came from? If he's only a few days old, I'd suspect his mother would be around somewhere unless someone dropped him off for no good reason.

Welcome as well!

 

[stano40]

I wouldn't worry about dis-budding right now it would be more stress for the little one to handle with all his issue's.

I was told once that it's best to dis-bud during the first week of birth. anything beyond that runs the risk of scur's developing after he is dis-budded.

Best of luck with him and welcome to BYH.

bob

 

[Emmetts Dairy]

I would definately get a vet on board asap. With the immune compromised you just never know. I agree with a fecal asap. You dont want to flood with drugs. Best to find out what your dealing with. I would get some milk (can be whole milk if only thing avail) and good goat feed and minerals asap. And it does sounds like mites or lice for sure. Treat asap. And like Roll said...it will take time for that.

Get pics if you can...it will help with age etc. Also how are the poops?? Solid or runny?? And can you get a temp?? Are the joints swollen? Somtimes when they are soo sick...they cannot walk very well...but it definatley could be something else for sure??? Hard saying without more info.

I would also give some molasses mixed with water and baking soda...just incase it browsed on something it shouldnt of ate while wonderng. That will settle the rumen a bit. Not alot...just a small bowl of water, tablespoon of molasses and a tablespoon of baking soda. It will also boost a bit of energy.

Please keep us informed...Also...I wouldnt tie a goat either. I too have heard horror stories. Never a good idea. They can definately hang themselves.

Good luck...hope things get better soon....

 

[pippy]

Thanks for the welcome!

I'll answer as best I can - I have only got one picture from last night because it was getting dark and I wanted to get him in the doll house to keep warm - it was exceptionally windy last night (gusts up to 100km/hr) at least it wasn't snowing.

Tieing - I don't really have a choice about the tieing until we can secure him in another way - we have a big hydrangra (sp) garden that he already took a nibble on last night before I berrated the SO. Because of that I syringed a small bit of my normal concontion I give my horses (bran mash with epson salts and mineral oil) it may not have been the best thing - but it flushes them out quickly and I then mixed in some pro-biotics with some milk this morning. Lots of runny pops last night, and he drank plenty of water, he was eating last night - but he wouldn't eat this morning although he had the milk.

I was planning on de-budding/de-sexing once his health is in better condition. I'll treat with ivermec tonight.

Is calf feed a suitable alternative to A goat mix?? I already have some of that and it will be some time before I can get to town to purchase some, the supplies truck won't make it out for another 2 weeks either.

CAE - does anyone know if that is applicable to New Zealand. I've never heard of it (but then i've had very little to do with goats).

Vet can't make it out for a week, and same scenario taking him in. I have liquid Se for oral dosing - would you guys recommend giving a mL or so every second day. Than taking bloods to see the level when the vet comes to see if he still needs a shot? The Se also has Vit E in it (for easier uptake to blood stream).

The one picture I got last night:

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/2/7/6/2/0/cimg1968.jpg

(sorry I don't know how to get it up here)

Thanks all
Pip

 

[cmjust0]

You dont want to flood with drugs.

I've never understood this kind of thinking...

Ok, so he stands 40cm high....that's, what, like 18 feet? And his horns are 6mm, which I think means they're actually negative-4 inches into his skull. No, wait...40/2.5 = about 16 inches w/ quarter-inch horns. I'm an American, sorry. :/

That's actually pretty tall to only have quarter inch horns, so I'm guessing that height's measured to the top of his head instead of his withers.. If so, I'd say this guy's probably a standardish breed and somewhere around a month old.

Pics would be handy. An accurate weight to go along with those pics would be *super* handy.

Sooo, his legs aren't working right...if I had to guess, I'd say he probably had contracted tendons at birth and gave up trying to walk on his front feet. Bo-Se is good for that sort of thing, and splinting/physical therapy is an excellent idea. He's a lil' feller yet, so I'd say he's got a good shot at growing out of it.

As for the rain rot...yeah, goats can get that. Could also be lice/mites. Who knows? Given that it's cracked through, I'd do some antibiotics if only to cure/prevent a secondary infection. I'd give PenG @ 1ml/15lbs 2x/day for about a week through an 18 or 20ga needle.. 18 would be best, but 20 usually works if you're squeemy about sticking babies with sharpened stovepipes. And if it turns out that it really was rain rot and not parasites, all the better that you gave antibiotics.

Since he's already grazing, I'd probably also just assume he's wormy and dose him orally with some ivermectin. Then I'd *inject* him with about 1/4 to 1/2 a ml of 1% injectable ivermectin, in case what looks like bacterial rain rot actually *is* an external parasite like lice or mites.. Some folks have luck just giving it orally and having it work for externals, but I'm in the "better safe and QUICKLY than sorry" camp on that one, so I inject.

I might go ahead and hit him with some Safe-Guard, too.. I do the 10% suspension at 1ml/10lbs for 3 days in a row. Safe-Guard is good for tapeworms, if he has any, and even if he doesn't...still good to hit a new goat w/ at least two different classes of dewormers to ensure a decent worm kill.

I'd probably also go ahead and get this guy on some dimethox, as he's probably somewhere close to being in the right range to come down with coccidiosis.. Dosage is 25mg/lb of bodyweight on day 1, then 12.5mg/lb of bodyweight on days 2-5. You can find DiMethox in boluses, powders, drinking water solutions, injectables, name-brand Albon, etc. -- whatever you find, break out the calculator to figure out how much of it contains 25mg of sulfadimethoxine and multiply that number by however many pounds he weighs. Give it as a drench, regardless of what the package says.. Repeat every three weeks to monthly until he's big enough to hold his own with coccidia...usually 6mo or so. If you can't get dimethox, see if you can get Sulmet...it's a close 2nd, and the dosage is exactly the same.

So that's bo-se + splints + physical therapy for the legs, antibiotics for possible rain-rot and/or secondary infection, two classes worth of de-worming, treatment for external parasites, and treatment for coccidia..

After that...groceries, I guess. Since he's male, strongly consider incorporating some alfalfa into his diet. Alfalfa's high in calcium, which is good for boys; helps *prevent* urinary calculi, despite what other people will tell you.

Aaaaand that oughtta just about do it.

 

[cmjust0]

I missed the last reply...

From the pic, he looks like a standard breed.. As for the liquid Se w/ Vit E....uhhh...I really dunno.

What I can tell you is that Bo-Se contains 2.19mg of Sodium Selenite, which is apparently the equivalent of 1mg of Selenium, plus 50mg/68iu of Vitamin E. The dosage we use on Bo-Se is 1ml/40lbs of goat, but I've been known to put about 1/2ml in 10lb babies with no problem.

Figure out what 'strength' your Se/E stuff is.. If you can determine how much of it to give to equal 1mg of Selenium for every 40lbs of goat....well, if it were me, I'd use it. People use selenium gel here in place of Bo-Se sometimes, and I don't recall hearing anything *bad* about doing it that way.

As for the calf feed...goat feed is usually balanced to have twice as much calcium as it has phosphorus. If you calf feed is balanced that way -- which it probably is NOT -- then it should be safe. If he's taking milk, feed him milk and hay...that's all he should need until you could get some on-label goat feed.

As for de-sexing him, wait until he's at least 8wks old to do that. Any earlier and you'll increase his risk for urinary calculi. I know you don't know his age right now, but I'd estimate it on the low end (like, 2wks) and wait another 6...or just wait 8 weeks from now to be absolutely sure.

 

[pippy]

Maybe my horse feed would be a better alterntive than calf.

Its pre-formulated with Se in it (a bit safer than direct dosing), has 2x calcium than phos.

We don't have alf here, its either meadow chaff or lucern (damp with molasses or dry). I'm all out of either - so its going to have to be plain hay until supply truck.

As to height - if you look at the weatherboards behind it - the bottom board is a 8" board (probably about 7" exposed there), so you can gauge height a little better off that. I was taking the 40cm from the wither - but that would have been holding the goat up so the front legs were as they would be if not "bung".

I'll have to jump on the scales with it tonight SO will love me bringing another animal inside.

 

[pippy]

Is there way of aging by teeth?