Help with Sheep Questions

[ShadowsFIAL]

I am going to be moving to Rhome. Right now I am in fort worth.

 

[Baymule]

Nothing like getting out of town and moving to the country!

 

[norseofcourse]

I am a year out from buying any sheep but I would love to learn as much as I can. If I get the land I am looking at, the sheep will have an entire acre pasture to themselves. My plan is to have one ram, and four ewes. The offspring will be sent to freezer camp, or sold, we do not plan to keep them.

We are going to have a barn that is 14'x19' for them to get in out of the weather. Inside the barn is where their food trough will be as well as they hay bin. We plan to give them their feed in the evening to coax them into the barn for lockup at night. Will this be plenty of room for the sheep?

That's close to the size of my sheep's run-in area. It gets a little snug when the lambs get older, especially when part of that area is sectioned off as the 'lamb pen', where the lambs stay overnight, separated from their moms, during milking season.

If you are wanting sheep for wool, you'll want a hay feeder design that minimizes hay getting in their wool. Check out the hay feeder on Premier1's website, the plans are free online and it's not hard to build.

Even with just an acre, you can do a sort of pasture rotation. Keep 1/2 acre 'home' pasture, and fence off two 1/4 acre areas. Switch between the two quarter acre areas, letting one grow back while you use the other, or closing both off if they both need to rest and grow. If you have a ram, this will also give you an area to put him when you want him separated from the ewes.

I plan to get three painted desert sheep, one ram, and two ewes, this will be the easy sheep for me to find, my big question is, where can I find any Border Leciester breeders in the US, or Welsh Mule sheep. I am extremely interested in the Welsh Mule, I find them to be a very attractive hybrid, or would I have better luck trying to import one? I want to have one or two if either of these breeds, or possibly one shetland.

Shetlands are cute, but they are really small sheep - I don't know if it would be advisable to breed a Shetland ewe to a larger sized sheep like a Painted Desert - maybe someone more experienced could weigh in on this.

Also, if you are wanting both hair and wool sheep - keep in mind that the hair from those hair sheep will get into the wool of your wool sheep, especially during shedding season. Not good for the wool, whether you want to use it yourself or sell it.

For hair sheep, have you checked into Katahdins? They come in other colors than white. Shetlands and Icelandics are wool sheep that come in a wide range of colors/patterns. Icelandics come either horned or polled.

As far a bottle feeding goes, I would like to bottle feed all of them to get a stronger bond with them, will this cause a problem with the ram? Also I would like to ID them with regular dog collars, would this work fine? I plan to put little bells on them as well.

As others have said, NEVER turn your back on a ram! My ram is friendly (to me), loves scratches and petting (not the top of his head, which might encourage butting). But, especially during breeding season, he gets stupid. His hormones take over. If I'm not a ewe to breed, I must be a rival, and he thinks he has to challenge me. Like purplequeenvt said, don't let them get away with that! Sometimes I leash him and keep him close to me when I'm in their pasture. Sometimes I've had to get him onto the ground and hold him till he gives in. Some days he is fine, some days he is more stupid.

Last year, in February, the ewes were more than halfway through their pregnancies. Elding had been behaving fine. One morning I went into their run-in and found a dead lamb - Brosa had aborted. I cleaned up everything as well as I could, got their feed ready, and let the sheep in to eat. I tried using scissors to trim some of Brosa's wool off her hind end, as it had frozen birth fluids on it. I wasn't watching Elding, who was probably on edge from the smell of what had happened, and I was near one of 'his' girls. He backed up... I looked up just in time to see him coming at me - wham! He backed up again before I could prepare, and got me again (luckily the run-in didn't give him a lot of room to get a running start, but it still hurt). I managed to get a leash on him and get him out of there.

Now, even when he is behaving, I always keep one eye on him when I'm in the same pasture with him. He is a sweet boy most of the time, but the risk is there.

We will be using a 6-8 wire electric fence. Not sure how many we will do yet, we plan to do at least the first three strands 6" apart.

I have electric rope, 6 strands seems to be working - the lower one closer together than the higher ones. My biggest problem with fewer strands was lambs going through - and once they learn they can go through, they are much harder to keep in. Your pasture vs. the outside also matters - if you have good pastures, they won't be as tempted to break out. If your pasture is eaten down and the outside looks green and growing - they may be more likely to risk an escape.

I am planning to use the regular horse quality square bales to feed them, as well as the dumor sheep feed, and a sheep mineral block free choice.

I wasn't impressed with the Dumor sheep feed, I thought the ingredients sounded lower quality. I use Buckeye non-medicated, but it may not be available down there. Some shepherds simply use whole corn, or you could mix whole corn with alfalfa pellets. With a good second-cut hay you may not even need grain, except for during late pregnancy and lactation/milking. Someone else already mentioned loose minerals being better than blocks.

If I decide to milk my sheep, how often should I milk them, can I milk them and keep their lambs on them? Thanks much in advance!

I milk my sheep once a day. I pen the lambs up overnight (with hay and water), milk the ewes in the morning, then they're all together all day. If there's a morning I can't milk, or I need a break, I don't separate them that night.

You'll get enough milk to play with - some cheese recipes take as little as a half gallon, and you don't need much for soap, either. You may have trouble with butter - without a cream separator you might not get much cream rising to the top. Your results may very, but I was getting 2 to 3 cups a day from 3 ewes (one was a first freshener). It wasn't worth it to me to let that milk sit a few days, just to skim off the little bit of cream I got. I may invest in a cream separator this year, not sure. I like the whole milk in recipes and soap.

Lots of good questions!

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

Nothing like getting out of town and moving to the country!

Can't agree more!

That's close to the size of my sheep's run-in area. It gets a little snug when the lambs get older, especially when part of that area is sectioned off as the 'lamb pen', where the lambs stay overnight, separated from their moms, during milking season.

If you are wanting sheep for wool, you'll want a hay feeder design that minimizes hay getting in their wool. Check out the hay feeder on Premier1's website, the plans are free online and it's not hard to build.

Even with just an acre, you can do a sort of pasture rotation. Keep 1/2 acre 'home' pasture, and fence off two 1/4 acre areas. Switch between the two quarter acre areas, letting one grow back while you use the other, or closing both off if they both need to rest and grow. If you have a ram, this will also give you an area to put him when you want him separated from the ewes.


Shetlands are cute, but they are really small sheep - I don't know if it would be advisable to breed a Shetland ewe to a larger sized sheep like a Painted Desert - maybe someone more experienced could weigh in on this.

Also, if you are wanting both hair and wool sheep - keep in mind that the hair from those hair sheep will get into the wool of your wool sheep, especially during shedding season. Not good for the wool, whether you want to use it yourself or sell it.

For hair sheep, have you checked into Katahdins? They come in other colors than white. Shetlands and Icelandics are wool sheep that come in a wide range of colors/patterns. Icelandics come either horned or polled.


As others have said, NEVER turn your back on a ram! My ram is friendly (to me), loves scratches and petting (not the top of his head, which might encourage butting). But, especially during breeding season, he gets stupid. His hormones take over. If I'm not a ewe to breed, I must be a rival, and he thinks he has to challenge me. Like purplequeenvt said, don't let them get away with that! Sometimes I leash him and keep him close to me when I'm in their pasture. Sometimes I've had to get him onto the ground and hold him till he gives in. Some days he is fine, some days he is more stupid.

Last year, in February, the ewes were more than halfway through their pregnancies. Elding had been behaving fine. One morning I went into their run-in and found a dead lamb - Brosa had aborted. I cleaned up everything as well as I could, got their feed ready, and let the sheep in to eat. I tried using scissors to trim some of Brosa's wool off her hind end, as it had frozen birth fluids on it. I wasn't watching Elding, who was probably on edge from the smell of what had happened, and I was near one of 'his' girls. He backed up... I looked up just in time to see him coming at me - wham! He backed up again before I could prepare, and got me again (luckily the run-in didn't give him a lot of room to get a running start, but it still hurt). I managed to get a leash on him and get him out of there.

Now, even when he is behaving, I always keep one eye on him when I'm in the same pasture with him. He is a sweet boy most of the time, but the risk is there.


I have electric rope, 6 strands seems to be working - the lower one closer together than the higher ones. My biggest problem with fewer strands was lambs going through - and once they learn they can go through, they are much harder to keep in. Your pasture vs. the outside also matters - if you have good pastures, they won't be as tempted to break out. If your pasture is eaten down and the outside looks green and growing - they may be more likely to risk an escape.

I wasn't impressed with the Dumor sheep feed, I thought the ingredients sounded lower quality. I use Buckeye non-medicated, but it may not be available down there. Some shepherds simply use whole corn, or you could mix whole corn with alfalfa pellets. With a good second-cut hay you may not even need grain, except for during late pregnancy and lactation/milking. Someone else already mentioned loose minerals being better than blocks.


I milk my sheep once a day. I pen the lambs up overnight (with hay and water), milk the ewes in the morning, then they're all together all day. If there's a morning I can't milk, or I need a break, I don't separate them that night.

You'll get enough milk to play with - some cheese recipes take as little as a half gallon, and you don't need much for soap, either. You may have trouble with butter - without a cream separator you might not get much cream rising to the top. Your results may very, but I was getting 2 to 3 cups a day from 3 ewes (one was a first freshener). It wasn't worth it to me to let that milk sit a few days, just to skim off the little bit of cream I got. I may invest in a cream separator this year, not sure. I like the whole milk in recipes and soap.

Lots of good questions!

Thank you for all the input! You helped me with a lot of my questions. I think i am going to stray away from the painted desert sheep. If I get more land, maybe one day I will get them, but I think I will enjoy the wool sheep more. I think I am going to try and get some Welsh Mules if by some miracle I can find them in the USA or I will go with the Border Leicesters. Push comes to shove if I want a more color in my field I can bring some pet safe dye from home and give my girls some funky colors for a year.

If I am sectioning out pasture space, will just a few electric wires work, or do I really need to do the six wire strand like the rest? Honestly we are trying to do cheap as possible, but I understand the rotation, and that they will eat everything down eventually if I don't. I might even be able to get away with giving them 1.5 acres if my husband will be willing to let the horses roam around all over the property haha. If he even get horses that is.

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

I think I want to make a feeder like this, so I can feed everyone from the outside of their barn pens.

 

[Baymule]

We fenced our place with 2"x4"x48" non climb horse wire. Yes it was more expensive, but we have already made fence mistakes on other land and I wanted a good fence. It keeps mine in, and everything else out.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/non-climb-horse-fence-48-in-x-200-ft?cm_vc=-10005

 

[norseofcourse]

If I am sectioning out pasture space, will just a few electric wires work, or do I really need to do the six wire strand like the rest? Honestly we are trying to do cheap as possible, but I understand the rotation, and that they will eat everything down eventually if I don't. I might even be able to get away with giving them 1.5 acres if my husband will be willing to let the horses roam around all over the property haha. If he even get horses that is.

You might be able to get away with 4 strands for the interior fencing. I'd still space it as close as I could, but maybe not make it quite as high. While there's not as much harm if they go through into another pasture, as there is if they escape out your perimeter fence, you still don't want them to get into the habit of going through fences - they may decide to go through the perimeter fence next.

 

[norseofcourse]

We fenced our place with 2"x4"x48" non climb horse wire. Yes it was more expensive, but we have already made fence mistakes on other land and I wanted a good fence. It keeps mine in, and everything else out.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/non-climb-horse-fence-48-in-x-200-ft?cm_vc=-10005

If I was starting fencing from scratch I would seriously consider this. I had horses before I got the sheep, and already had 4 strand electric rope, so I chose to add another strand (then a 6th), rather than completely redo my fencing.

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

I will talk with my husband about it. It might take us longer than a year, but perhaps it will be worth it.

 

[Latestarter]

I would encourage you to seriously think fencing as one of, if not the MOST, important investment to your property improvement plan. You'll read it over and over as you browse this forum and probably any other; of people who scrimped on their fencing and lost animals to predation, escape, theft, injury/death. It's a huge expense, everyone will agree, but doing it right the first time or as best you possibly can, can save you so much more down the road.

The most important is the perimeter fencing as this will be your animals main protection from incoming stray dogs (IMO the #1 killer of small livestock), coyotes, bob cats, etc. You can let the animals use the entire space to wander while you save up to cross fence into separate pastures over time. When I say perimeter, I'm specifying the fencing for the perimeter of THEIR entire area. This includes the fence between your family/pet use area from their pasture. You wouldn't believe how many people have lost their livestock to their own dogs (IMO #3 killer).

The 2nd most important area will be their holding area(s) near their shelter where you'll most likely keep them at night, during bad weather, or when you need them contained for whatever reason.

If the entire property perimeter is too large a cost, then do it one pasture at a time, but again, do it right. You can also use high tensil wire for fencing and electrify the entire fence alternating positive/negative. This will save you adding additional electric wire over top the new/existing fencing.

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

I would encourage you to seriously think fencing as one of, if not the MOST, important investment to your property improvement plan. You'll read it over and over as you browse this forum and probably any other; of people who scrimped on their fencing and lost animals to predation, escape, theft, injury/death. It's a huge expense, everyone will agree, but doing it right the first time or as best you possibly can, can save you so much more down the road.

The most important is the perimeter fencing as this will be your animals main protection from incoming stray dogs (IMO the #1 killer of small livestock), coyotes, bob cats, etc. You can let the animals use the entire space to wander while you save up to cross fence into separate pastures over time. When I say perimeter, I'm specifying the fencing for the perimeter of THEIR entire area. This includes the fence between your family/pet use area from their pasture. You wouldn't believe how many people have lost their livestock to their own dogs (IMO #3 killer).

The 2nd most important area will be their holding area(s) near their shelter where you'll most likely keep them at night, during bad weather, or when you need them contained for whatever reason.

If the entire property perimeter is too large a cost, then do it one pasture at a time, but again, do it right. You can also use high tensil wire for fencing and electrify the entire fence alternating positive/negative. This will save you adding additional electric wire over top the new/existing fencing.

Thank you so much. I think we are going to go ahead and do the wire instead. It may take longer, but like you said. It will be worth it in the end.

 

[Baymule]

We bought 8 acres and moved last February. There was nothing here but the house. We already "did it wrong" and I knew it would be a lot of work and a lot of expense, but we used the horse wire with 7' T-posts. The T-posts stick up a foot taller than the wire, which leaves me room for 2 strands of barb wire, or you could use hot wire. We have one stretch of fencing left to do. If you skimp on fencing, you will live to regret it.

You can buy one roll of wire at a time, it's 200 feet. A square acre is 204'x204' or something like that. I took a lot of pictures, I need to make a fencing thread.

 

[ShadowsFIAL]

We bought 8 acres and moved last February. There was nothing here but the house. We already "did it wrong" and I knew it would be a lot of work and a lot of expense, but we used the horse wire with 7' T-posts. The T-posts stick up a foot taller than the wire, which leaves me room for 2 strands of barb wire, or you could use hot wire. We have one stretch of fencing left to do. If you skimp on fencing, you will live to regret it.

You can buy one roll of wire at a time, it's 200 feet. A square acre is 204'x204' or something like that. I took a lot of pictures, I need to make a fencing thread.

Please do! It will help a lot haha! How far apart should I put the T-posts?

 

[Baymule]

@ShadowsFIAL I just posted a fence thread. we placed our T-posts 10 feet apart.

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/non-climb-2-x4-horse-wire-fence.32922/#post-420939