My friend's goats are getting skinnier and skinnier...

[PattySh]

My friend has a herd of about 10 goats. I told her I'd ask for advice for her. The goats looked good this summer when at pasture but are getting skinnier and skinnier the last couple of months and does are probably pregnant as they ran with a buck this fall. She was feeding what I consider poor quality hay up until the last 3 weeks or so. The goats loved it but it was very late cut, with tons of late milkweed (which made me nervous)and brown dried leaves in it (which they avoided). When several goats started looking thin she found another hay source that she could afford and this grass hay looks very green but is 2009 hay. She had not been feeding grain but started to feed sweet feed about 3 weeks ago when switched to the new hay. She gives them loose minerals, not sure how much but not free fed. All have been dewormed, very recently again. Prior to the weight loss as a herd several appear to be stunted in appearance (I have some same age goats from same source and the difference is very obvious) One young goat (7 months or so) died a month ago or so after suddenly getting thin too. Poops are all fine and no one seems feverish. No runny noses or coughs or lice. They are not gaining weight at all and several are dangerously thin. She is now feeding lots of grain (sweet feed)so I am thinking the hay is not very nutritional or that they are just not digesting their food. I haven't seen them in a week but today she said in this week they look worse. Because several appear stunted wondering if more is going on. Two other differences in our herds other than hay, mine had Entertoxemia/Tetanus shots and hers didn't and I have heated water buckets and her's freeze. Not sure she can up the hay quality so I've suggested hay stretcher pellets and trying to get heated buckets. At a loss at what else to tell her. I just bought extra vaccines but not sure I can offer them to her as her goats are very thin and afraid for reactions. Any advice for her?

 

[PattySh]

My friend has a herd of about 10 goats. I told her I'd ask for advice for her. The goats looked good this summer when at pasture but are getting skinnier and skinnier the last couple of months and does are probably pregnant as they ran with a buck this fall. She was feeding what I consider poor quality hay up until the last 3 weeks or so. The goats loved it but it was very late cut, with tons of late milkweed (which made me nervous)and brown dried leaves in it (which they avoided). When several goats started looking thin she found another hay source that she could afford and this grass hay looks very green but is 2009 hay. She had not been feeding grain but started to feed sweet feed about 3 weeks ago when switched to the new hay. She gives them loose minerals, not sure how much but not free fed. All have been dewormed, very recently again. Prior to the weight loss as a herd several appear to be stunted in appearance (I have some same age goats from same source and the difference is very obvious) One young goat (7 months or so) died a month ago or so after suddenly getting thin too. Poops are all fine and no one seems feverish. No runny noses or coughs or lice. They are not gaining weight at all and several are dangerously thin. She is now feeding lots of grain (sweet feed)so I am thinking the hay is not very nutritional or that they are just not digesting their food. I haven't seen them in a week but today she said in this week they look worse. Because several appear stunted wondering if more is going on. Two other differences in our herds other than hay, mine had Entertoxemia/Tetanus shots and hers didn't and I have heated water buckets and her's freeze. Not sure she can up the hay quality so I've suggested hay stretcher pellets and trying to get heated buckets. At a loss at what else to tell her. I just bought extra vaccines but not sure I can offer them to her as her goats are very thin and afraid for reactions. Any advice for her? I will say she can't afford a vet at the moment.

 

[ksalvagno]

First, I would have a fecal done. One type of wormer doesn't take care of all parasites. Then worm appropriately.

Second, she needs to get good quality hay. If the hay is good quality, even the 2009 should be ok. There were a couple years when I overestimated hay and had hay going well into the second year. My animals never lost any weight or had any health issues.

Third, I would consider adding alfalfa pellets and Black Oil Sunflower Seeds. Is the sweet feed for goats or just a general sweet feed? I would also use a goat specific feed.

I would consider Johnes disease but from your description, it sounds like nutrition and parasites are probably the culprits.

 

[PattySh]

Wow wonder how that double posted!

 

[PattySh]

Sweet feed is goat specific. Personally I think it was the original hay, wondering also if they got some toxicity from the milkweed that affected digestion. I didn't see them chewing cuds last time I was there and asked her to check for that. I am going over tomorrow and will take a good look at them. This hay looks very green but I'm really concerned as they are still losing. She said they got so skinny they are having trouble keeping warm now so shivering isn't helping either. I suggested she take the hay for a free analysis at a local feed store. What about soaked beet pulp would they eat it? I know she can't afford a vet bill right now. If the food wasn't being digested properly they would have diarrea right? or not because they are not drinking alot because the water freezes?

 

[ksalvagno]

They could probably eat shredded beet pulp without soaking it but then again soaking it in warm water and taking it out to them warm might help them a little.

Could she take a fecal sample in and just have a fecal run? If they have coccidia, that could be destroying their intestines and you would need DiMethox to take care of the coccidia.

Certainly the milkweed could have done something. She does also really need to make sure they have plenty of water. Unfortunately, until she really finds the root cause of the weight loss, she may lose more goats.

 

[AlaskanShepherdess]

Have they been tested for Johne's? Johne's is a goat wasting disease. If after a while of improved feed and they aren't gaining any weight back and fecals come back fine they I would Definately test for Johne's.

 

[freemotion]

Also, she needs to get those minerals out to them full-time, and the hay needs to be fed free-choice and off the ground (clean.) Is that happening? They will never catch up until it is.

I go through a large square bale a day for 7 goats, often a flake or two more if it is very cold. This is in addition to grain, beet pulp, alfalfa pellets, and veggies (not everyone gets all the extras) and everyone had minerals all the time.

She cannot afford to skimp right now. She can get a bit more oomph from her grain by soaking/sprouting whole grains, which are often cheaper, too.

 

[freemotion]

Oh, and you can keep the water from freezing longer by insulating the buckets within muck buckets or some larger vessel, packing hay, straw, or shavings around them, putting them in a protected spot, and filling them with warm water. I do this all winter here in New England. I even built a great insulated bucket when I had a horse, made with a muck bucket, a five gallon pail, a ring cut from a scrap of plywood to fit on top of the muck bucket and to suspend the five gallon pail in. I filled the space between with packing peanuts and spray foam insulation. Rarely freezes, never solid. Too tall for short goats, though.

 

[Our7Wonders]

My girls really like their hot soaked shredded beet pulp in the morning. It's fairly inexpensive and a little goes a long way once soaked. When I get up in the morning I add 1 cup beet pulp to a bowl and add 2 cups very hot water and let it "cook" for a while.

I pack it out with me and once the hay is fed and water bucket filled with warm water I mix up their morning feed and put the hot beet pulp over the top. They start "freakin'" for it as soon as the beet pulp is poured on top. They kinda snubbed it at first but once they gave it a chance they LOVED it. I had a hard time getting them to take their minerals - once I started burying them under the beet pulp we had no more problems. I do this again for them in the evening as well.

All this to say, it's not a big expense (I think it was under $10.00 here for a 20 pound bag - it's dried, so 20 pounds is a very good size bag), it can help add some extra calories, and it can be a nice warm treat for them and may encourage them to eat more. More nutrtion can be packed into it if she invests in a bag of Calf Manna too. I think it was around $15 for a 25 pound bag here (totatally going from memory, that might not be right) and a little goes a long way with this too as the feed directions are 1/4-1/2 cup per head. A hand full of BOSS thrown in will add some good extra fat. This isn't going to fix her problems but might help get some calories into them to help buy some time while she gets to the source of the problem.

I don't know how practical it would be with a larger herd, but I pack out 3 one gallon jugs of very warm water for them each morning. I break the ice out, swish and rinse with a little of the warm water and then add the warm water. One of my does, in particular, waits for her warm water each morning - I think it's like morning cup of coffee.

I hope your friend can get it figured out soon.