New to sheep, need some advice

[cugrad]

Hello BYH,

I'm a good ways out from purchasing my first sheep, but I am enjoying reading about them. Basically, I want a small herd as a hobby. I doubt I will have a huge acreage, and I want the sheep to be a hobby more than a way of life if that makes sense. With that said, I'm looking at specifically hair sheep since they do not need to be docked or sheared. Or if there are some other sheep that do not require docking or shearing, feel free to mention them so I can take a look. It looks like I am in luck, I live in South Carolina so our mild weather should aid me in having a low maintenance herd. I do want to do a small breeding setup versus just keeping a "pet herd". I enjoy raising animals.

So I have some questions that I could not find answers too in my basic research. I would greatly appreciate some help!

1) In your opinion (I know it varies), how many sheep per acre am I looking at if I want to let them live off grazing the majority of the time?

2) Just to give me an idea, if pasture size is not the limiting factor, what size herd would you consider low maintenance?

3) I am set on owning a ram or two. They are nice to look at, and as mentioned I want to breed. For hobby herds, do you still recommend housing the rams separate? And do rams fight a lot? Can you keep 2 rams with a small herd of ewes if I decided to keep the rams with the ewes year round?


4) If I buy 3 ewes and 1 ram to start with. After my first lambing season, would I have to buy a totally new ram in order to keep building my herd? I'm trying to wrap my head around genetics of sheep.

5) How hard are lambs to sell? I want to go through the yearly process of raising a few lambs, but I don't want to end up with extras if my pastures can't handle them.

If a specific breed of sheep seems ideal for me, be sure to chime in. Right now, it seems like Katahdin fit the bill, but the more exotic looking breeds appeal to me more. Any other tips are appreciated.

Thanks!
CUgrad

 

[BrownSheep]

It's a little late right now so I'll just give you what pops up and come back tomorrow to add.
Rattail breeds like Finn do not need tone docked but do need to be sheared.

As for grazing " most" of the time what are you looking at. March- November? April - October? Regardless you'll end up buying at least some hay for winter.

As for rams, please be aware rams can be dangerous. My two rams are with the ewes from about August until april/ may. During the fall they split up into breeding groups. For the most part rams will only fight when be ( re) introduced. My two guys get along splendidly and fight very little even after being reintroduced. That being said rams can kill one another. We had a yearling polled ram that died after one of our older horned rams butted him.

Since you are looking at hair breeds you will most likely need to separate the rams at some point till breeding season. Hair sheep can breed year round. Keepin them in year round can lead to a very random and spread out lambing schedule. If you do want to keep track of breeding dates I would look into a breeding harness.

Rams can be bred back to daughters. We breed father to daughter but we won't breed that offspring back to him. After breeding that ewe to another the inbreeding coefficient would be small again. Theres a jacob breeder that explains it well. Ill see if I can find her site for you. For an example.....
Say a and b produced ab. Ab can breed back to a to produce aab. Aab then needs to be bred to an unrelated ram we will can him Z. So then Zaab can then be bred back to A.

The old adage that if works its line breeding if not its inbreeding is always a good thing to remember as well.


We actually tend to eat all of ours and to be honest we come from a huge sheepherding area so finding lamb lovers isn't hard. It really depends on your market.

That's all for now. I'll see what else I can think of later.

 

[SheepGirl]

Great animal choice! Sheep are great!

1. Usually you can get 5-6 ewes and their lambs on the same amount of land you can put a cow/calf pair. So for SC, I would guess maybe 5-6 ewes per acre or so.

2. What do you mean by low maintenance? Less time to feed? Less health issues? Less management needs? etc You are going to have to trim hooves and vaccinate, and while it doesn't take a long time per sheep, the more sheep you have, the longer it will take. Personally I like having a large flock (30-40 ewes). More lambs to ooh and aah at haha.

3. We've always had the rams separate, except for breeding season. Whenever the ram is with the ewes, he gets a marking harness put on. We've had up to 3-4 rams together and we've also had single rams. They will fight initially but after a couple days they sleep together and graze together.

4. No you don't have to buy a new ram. I've bred twin siblings together (not on purpose) and got two healthy ewe lambs that I bred to an outcross ram (though only one settled). My two ewe lambs I'm keeping this year I will probably breed back to their father.

5. If you take lambs to auction, they're always sold. If you want to sell direct to customers (breeding stock/pets/meat), you will have to do a little bit of marketing.

5) How hard are lambs to sell? I want to go through the yearly process of raising a few lambs, but I don't want to end up with extras if my pastures can't handle them.

----

Personally I like my wool sheep so I don't have any hair recommendations for you

 

[tiana29]

Hello BYH,


1) In your opinion (I know it varies), how many sheep per acre am I looking at if I want to let them live off grazing the majority of the time?
It depends on your area. A local farmer would be able to advise you better.

2) Just to give me an idea, if pasture size is not the limiting factor, what size herd would you consider low maintenance?
I'm a newbie and live in California but I have 4 ewes and 1 ram of American Blackbellies on about an acre and they have been really low maintenance so far. I have their pasture split into two pastures so that I can rotate them and so far this has worked really well. Right now they are not keeping up with both pasture.

3) I am set on owning a ram or two. They are nice to look at, and as mentioned I want to breed. For hobby herds, do you still recommend housing the rams separate? And do rams fight a lot? Can you keep 2 rams with a small herd of ewes if I decided to keep the rams with the ewes year round?
Right now I'm keeping my ram with the girls. Two are pregnant and due in June and I just saw him breeding the other two a couple of weeks ago so if they take then they will be due in August. So if you don't mind the spread out lambing like this then you can keep him with the girls but remember that hair sheep can come back into heat I believe withing 6 weeks of lambing. So I plan to keep my ram separate once they lamb to make sure he doesn't breed them immediately.

4) If I buy 3 ewes and 1 ram to start with. After my first lambing season, would I have to buy a totally new ram in order to keep building my herd? I'm trying to wrap my head around genetics of sheep.
Like I said before I'm a newbie so I don't have much experience but I do know that you can breed the ram back to his daughter but no more then that.

5) How hard are lambs to sell? I want to go through the yearly process of raising a few lambs, but I don't want to end up with extras if my pastures can't handle them.
Again, it depends on your area and a local farmer would have better advise.

If a specific breed of sheep seems ideal for me, be sure to chime in. Right now, it seems like Katahdin fit the bill, but the more exotic looking breeds appeal to me more. Any other tips are appreciated.
I have to say I really like my ABB's. They are really beautiful and mine are not as wild as some seem to be. I do have one ewe that was a bottle baby so she is pretty friendly but all of them will follow me into the barn to see if I have any grain. 3 of 5 will eat grain out of my hand. I will say that they are flighty and it would be really difficult to catch them if I didn't have a working dog to hold them in a corner for me but for the most part they are low maintenance so it's rare that I'm trying to catch them.

 

[EllieMay]

. . . So I have some questions that I could not find answers too in my basic research. I would greatly appreciate some help!

1) In your opinion (I know it varies), how many sheep per acre am I looking at if I want to let them live off grazing the majority of the time?
The general number is about 6 per acre. It, of course, depends on your pasture situation. If you have no good grass, then you'll need fewer sheep.

2) Just to give me an idea, if pasture size is not the limiting factor, what size herd would you consider low maintenance?
I have 12 Katahdin sheep and for me that is extremely manageable.
Hair sheep are basically low maintenance anyway.
I'm looking forward to increasing my numbers to 25 then 50 by the end of the year.
"Maintenance" includes feeding/watering each day; however, you also have to keep an eye on the sheep for any that may be limping or ill.
I like to check hooves periodically and trim on occasion.
Hooves will need to be trimmed more or less often depending on the ground they're walking on (more rocks = less trimming) and how much grain they're consuming (more grain = more timming), etc.

3) I am set on owning a ram or two. They are nice to look at, and as mentioned I want to breed. For hobby herds, do you still recommend housing the rams separate? And do rams fight a lot? Can you keep 2 rams with a small herd of ewes if I decided to keep the rams with the ewes year round?
I keep my ram with the ewes most of the year.
Meaning during breeding and about a month before lambing.
So that equals about 8 or 9 months out of the year my ram is in with the ewes.
If you have more than one ram and they're raised together, you won't have much of an issue.
IF you separate the rams for breeding, let's say, then when you put them back together, they will fight.
You must put the rams back together in a very small area; it's also a good idea to fill this small area with obstacles (we use old tires laying all over the ground), so they can't back up and get enough steps to bash real hard.
They usually get over this behavior within a week, then you can let them out into a larger pasture.

4) If I buy 3 ewes and 1 ram to start with. After my first lambing season, would I have to buy a totally new ram in order to keep building my herd? I'm trying to wrap my head around genetics of sheep.
You can keep your ram.
There are some people who breed their rams back to the daughters.
I, personally, do not breed my rams back to daughters or mothers.
Two rams work well since you can breed the rams to the others daughters.
Also, you can also sell your lambs and use that money to buy different stock to breed to your ram(s).

5) How hard are lambs to sell? I want to go through the yearly process of raising a few lambs, but I don't want to end up with extras if my pastures can't handle them.
Lambs, generally, are easy to sell; but it also depends on your location and the demand.
I raise Katahdins and the demand for them in my area is very high!
There are waiting lists for Katahdin lambs.
Also, each year during ethnic holidays, there are those communities looking for lambs.
It's a good idea to find out what the deal is in your area.

If a specific breed of sheep seems ideal for me, be sure to chime in. Right now, it seems like Katahdin fit the bill, but the more exotic looking breeds appeal to me more. Any other tips are appreciated.
I agree that Katahdins are a great sheep to start with. They're easy peasy to raise. Very parasite resistant and friendly.
There are other hair breeds but they are not quite as friendly.
So for 'starting' the Katahdin breed would be best.
You can always branch out from there.

Thanks!
CUgrad

 

[cugrad]

Thanks for the reply guys/gals! Extremely helpful. I noted all of your main points. Sorry if any of the questions sound silly, I have zero farm experience. We had horses when I was young, but that is about it.

As far as what I meant by "low maintenance". I'm starting a career in financial services. Basically, its a high stress desk type job, so I have to keep things at home manageable. I was reading through this forum section, and one poster made the comment that people these days are "playing farm", that is exactly what I want to do. Have a small enough number of sheep that I don't have to constantly fret over chores, but enough that I have some work to do to blow off steam. Some physical work is the best cure for being mentally tired in my opinion (works for me anyway).
I'll go with keeping the rams away from the ewes save for breeding season. I can see where having a consistent lambing season would be ideal for a lot of reasons.


A few more questions if ya'll don't mind:
1) I'm probably going to start with Kats. But are Dorpers a bad choice? I'm a newbie, so of course looks are a motivator right now. I like the standardized look and their stocky frames make them look like small cows lol.

2) Does mixing breeds impact the price of lambs? I'm assuming not since there are terminal sire programs?

3) Is mixing species frowned upon for newbies?



CUgrad

 

[SheepGirl]

A few more questions if ya'll don't mind:
1) I'm probably going to start with Kats. But are Dorpers a bad choice? I'm a newbie, so of course looks are a motivator right now. I like the standardized look and their stocky frames make them look like small cows lol.

2) Does mixing breeds impact the price of lambs? I'm assuming not since there are terminal sire programs?

3) Is mixing species frowned upon for newbies?



CUgrad

1. Again I don't really have any suggestions for hair breeds because I'm partial to my wool sheep I like Dorpers because they are meaty, but I like the Katahdins more because they are more maternal than Dorpers (more babies, heavier lambs at weaning). From what I've seen, Katahdins don't have as good of a carcass as Dorpers.

2. Not if you're selling them at auction Obviously if you're selling breeding stock you can get more for registered purebreds if you sold private treaty, but all the meat buyers at auction care about is how meaty your lambs are & what they grade as, because that's how they're paid (better grading = more money because it's higher quality meat). In fact, pretty much all sheep are crossbreds. The only reason to have purebreds is to show (but sometimes even those 'purebreds' have other breeds mixed in...but that's another topic altogether), to produce replacement ewes and flock sires for commercial flocks, and for novelty.

3. No, actually it is BETTER if you start with crosses! Less expensive sheep to make your learning mistakes on I know it sounds morbid but if you make a sheep sick or kill a sheep due to your inexperience it will be better doing it on a $150-$175 commercial ewe than your fancy $300-$400 papered ewe. Also, crosses tend to experience hybrid vigor, which means they tend to be hardier, healthier, and more productive. All good things

 

[BrownSheep]

To be honest for hobby farms where your just looking for a relaxing hobby I really would suggest mix breeds. Easier to locate, less ailments then the purebred breeds. You could always do katahdins ewes and a dorper ram for meatier lambs with better moms.

 

[cugrad]

Thanks guys.

I'll try and find some kat crosses to get started. Your right Brownsheep, sounds like all I need anyway, as I am just looking for a hobby with some free meat thrown in. My main concern was shearing, I don't want anything mixed in that affects the kats shedding ability.

I'm sure I'll change my mind real quick once I have to deal with it, but man those big muscular rams are cool. I think that's why the dorpers peak my interest.

Now I just need a basic farming 101 course. I know nothing about pasture methods, how much hay to feed, toxic plants, how to plant a pasture, ect. Any books to recommend?

 

[EllieMay]

Also, keep in mind that most Dorper owners DO dock their tails.
Don't know what they do with the crosses, though.
A lot of folks have the Dorper/Kat crosses, so they should be easier to locate and way cheaper (maybe).
Very good for meat, too.

You will find that keeping sheep is very easy.
I do have a friend who has 250+ sheep and they both have full-time jobs.
They check their sheep in the morning before work to feed/water and they do any necessary chores after work.
They are now lambing (can you imagine lambing 250+ ewes?).
Since Kats normally have twins or triplets, you can imagine how many baby lambs they have running around.