Nine week old Alpines; Scott the Feed Man gave me Calf Starter?

[NachoFarm]

Ok, so I tried to weed through all the info on here about goat feeding and the great grain debate but since the goats are already in the barn I figured I would just ask outright.

The woman we got them from was feeding "second cut hay" (I don't actually know what that is, or what the second cut part refers to) and she was also feeding them these wheat kernel looking things and she was apparently still bottle feeding but with cows milk. Cows milk?

She sent us home with some of the hay and wheat thingys which we've been giving them, but we haven't given them a bottle since we got them last week. Was it alright to just cut the milk cold turkey?

As for the Calf Starter, I was under the impression from reading a book that we needed to feed grain. So when I called the feed store and he said he had what we needed, I went and picked up a bag of it, but it's labelled Calf Starter and it's also medicated. I'm thinking that I shouldn't even bother opening the bag because I don't think this is what I wanted.

As I said before, if there's a debate about whether to feed grain, can someone simplify the debate for me quickly? And let's say I was leaning towards NOT feeding grain, what would be the feeding regimen I would be following?

Right now, I give them hay in the morning, wait two hours, then let them out on the pasture (which is alfalfa, clover and grass) for one hour, back in the barn, more hay at 4pm and then back out on the pasture for another hour. The reason I'm doing it like this, I don't want them to get bloat and I don't know what other way to do it.

 

[ksj0225]

I personally wounldn't wean a 9 week old nubian so I would put them back on the bottle. And calf starter/goat feed can be they same thing depending on the mill, we would need more information such as the contents on the feed. Does it have a label. They should be fine to graze all day after a couple of days of limiting their exposure to the new grass. Waiting for the more experienced ones to jump in and help you,

 

[redtailgal]

I wouldnt use calf starter. I think it would be asking for very sick goats.

Personally, I would use whole milk from the grocery store. There are lots of folks on here that bottle raise on whole cow's milk and they have less tummy troubles than those raising on replacer.

 

[Goatherd]

As I said before, if there's a debate about whether to feed grain, can someone simplify the debate for me quickly? And let's say I was leaning towards NOT feeding grain, what would be the feeding regimen I would be following?

There is no simple answer to your query. If you're not wanting to feed grain, that's fine. Your goats will need good pasture, browse and high quality hay and minerals.

Second cut hay is when the field is cut the second time and the hay is richer in nutrients and is usually greener than the first cutting which can often times have quite a bit of weed in it.
Also, second cut hay is "more delicate" in the fact that if it is baled when it is damp or not sufficiently dried, you run a greater risk of mold occurring. There are some farms that even do a third cut hay, but that is less common and not readily available.

Not a bottle feeder so can't help you with that.

 

[NachoFarm]

Personally, I would use whole milk from the grocery store. There are lots of folks on here that bottle raise on whole cow's milk and they have less tummy troubles than those raising on replacer.

But if I don't have to bottle feed then I don't want to...I was under the impression that bottle fed goats could be weaned at two months?

The calf starter he gave me is a big bag of something...

 

[redtailgal]

Alot of folks on here wean at 8 weeks, so Its my (inexperienced) opinion that you could go ahead and wean.

I went longer.......but I liked bottle feeding, lol.

Could you get your money back on the calf starter?

 

[NachoFarm]

Maybe...or I could sell it to our neighbour who has a dairy farm! LOL!

No one will try and sum up the grain debate for me? A quick overview of both sides?

 

[20kidsonhill]

the grain debate.

Well, here is why we feed grain.

first it is medicated for Coccidiosis, something we have to treat for a lot, If we didn't have the medication in the feed, we would be battling it all the time. Even with the medication in the feed we still have to treat a little.

second, I want to take advantage of the fact that the kids grow the fastest when they are young, After all I am trying to get them to market. It is a good consistant protein and fiber for them, as well as balanced minerals. For us it is worth the money to have faster growing kids so we can sell them sooner. Even my does that I am not taking to market can reach a breeding weight sooner if they are on grain, otherwise I have to wait longer to breed them.

Plus, a good part of our market is show wethers, and you can't take a goat to a meat show that has been only on pasture, so they have to be used to goat grain. Well, you can take a pasture goat to the show, but it wont do very well.



Personally, If I wasn't feeding grain I would keep them on milk longer so they are getting a more consistant level of protein. We wean at 8 to 10 weeks and by the time we wean them they are eating 3% in their body weight in 16% pelleted goat feed a day. However we don't feed a lot of alfalfa, So I would for be offering them alfalfa or really really amazing forage/pasture if they aren't getting anymore milk.

now you need to take into consideration, what breed you have, I have boer and they can be raised on pasture, but do a lot better on some grain, at least for the first 6 months or so.

Nigis and dwarfs seem to do quite well on less grain and aren't as hard to raise on hay/pasture only

Dairy breeds that stay thinner and grow big frames, really do better on some grain or again need amazing hay and or pastare/browse.

Question is:
how fast do you want your kids to grow?
Why do you want them to grow faster? What are you using your goats for?
What kind of quality pasture/hay can you offer a young kid so they can get adequate protein in their diet?
What are you going to do to maintain healthy minerals?

Good luck on your decision.

I actually think the calf starter is probably alright to use. Does it have Urea in the the ingredients label? That would be my only concern with it. Goats shouldn't have cattle products with Urea in them. Urea is used as a source of protein for cattle.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

If you try to bottle a dam raised 9 week old, please take a video of it! He's fine to be weaned at that age, 8 weeks is a very typical weaning age. If he was bottle fed, then you could probably put him back on the bottle but I really don't think you'll have any luck bottling him at 9 weeks, and there's no need to do that.

 

[NachoFarm]

...first it is medicated for Coccidiosis, something we have to treat for a lot, If we didn't have the medication in the feed, we would be battling it all the time. Even with the medication in the feed we still have to treat a little.

Hmm, I have to read up on that more as I don't know what it is, how they get it etc.

Dairy breeds that stay thinner and grow big frames, really do better on some grain or again need amazing hay and or pasture/browse.

What constitutes "amazing" hay?

Question is:
How fast do you want your kids to grow?

Breeding weight by November when they'll be about 10 months old.

Why do you want them to grow faster? What are you using your goats for?

I don't necessarily want them to grow "faster", I just want them to grow healthy. They'll only be used for our personal dairy purposes.

What kind of quality pasture/hay can you offer a young kid so they can get adequate protein in their diet?

The pasture around us is a alfalfa/clover/grass mix that was grown for the neighbours cows in previous years.

What are you going to do to maintain healthy minerals?

They currently have a salt lick, which is another whole thing because the woman at the store suggested one without copper, but I thought goats needed copper? Tried to find soda at the store to no avail.

I actually think the calf starter is probably alright to use. Does it have Urea in the the ingredients label? That would be my only concern with it. Goats shouldn't have cattle products with Urea in them. Urea is used as a source of protein for cattle.

I don't know...I'll have to check.