Old horse...founder...fatty tumor?

[RockyToggRanch]

Quick history...

Bo-Gjango was the first horse I have ever owned. I bought him about 4 yrs ago. He was sold to me as a 16 yr old. Tennessee Walker.

That first winter he had founder. The vet laughed when I said he's 16. He said "more like 30!" mind you there had been vets out before this for teeth floating and swollen sheath from black flies. None ever mentioned his age being off.

A few months after his founder issue I noticed a bulge around his tail head. I mentioned to a vet who didn't seem concerned. It grew to about the size of a plum and stayed that size.

This morning when I took his blanket off I noticed it was gone. Upon further investigation (poking around) I discovered that it seems to have slid off of his tail head and into the muscle on his rump. It doesn't appear to hurt him...I poked and pushed quite a bit.


Any ideas what this could be? I thought initially it was insulin resistance and just a fatty deposit...He has always been super thin since I've had him. He gets blue seal senior and hay stretcher as well as good quality hay freechoice. With the founder issue my vets and barefoot trimmer advised me to keep him in a dry lot and eliminate treats and greens This horse will not be happy kept that way.. he does not act like a senior horse. He wants to be out moving around.

I have another horse and goats in his paddock so he's not alone.

 

[patandchickens]

It doesn't sound particularly worrisome to me (especially for an old pensioner).

It is not obvious to me that it *couldn't* be a fatty deposit or perhaps a large harmless cyst, that has shifted position (perhaps he rolled on it juuuuust so last night?)

But, it does not match anything on my personal radar of "things that make you really go Hm" so while you might have the vet take a peek at it next time he's out for something else, if there is nothing else going on with the horse I really would not worry about it.

Pat

 

[RockyToggRanch]

Thanks. I needed that reassurance I guess. He seems fine other than being so thin. But I can't put weight on him due to the founder issue...according to the vet. I'll watch it closely and not fret over it. Spring checkups are near

 

[PattySh]

I did the same thing, rescued a pony and when having the vet check her out her age doubled! Chronic founder also. I had to trim Spirit's feet every 3 weeks to keep her comfortable. Worked for several years , we were able to ride and drive her lightly then this last spring she foundered bad and I could no longer keep weight on her. You do want to keep him off grass, especially early morning, first spring grass etc. Not saying you can't carry him a few bites of handpicked goodies. I'd pick older plants like timothy for him rather than short lawn grass (less plush if that makes sense) and only a few handfuls. Also carrots and apples are nono's for foundered horses. Sugarfree peppermint candies are appreciated! Not sure exactly what the tailhead thing is but he could be retaining fluid maybe?You definately want him moving around which increases the blood flow to his feet. Light work on a longe line might work for him if he can handle it building up slowly. I also recommend no shoes, barefoot trim with the toes rolled. Not sure you'll ever be able to ride him, if he is comfortable walking tho you may be able to lightly use him on grass depending what you weigh etc. Our pony when comfortable was able to be lightly ridden by 140 person when we got her feet under comtrol but when she relapsed no way she could barely walk. Each horse is different. I had planned on putting our pony down before this winter hit because she had relapsed so badly (not sure why). Wanted her to enjoy being pampered one last summer. Unfortunately a neighbor called animal control because of her weight (I've seen alot worse!)and we had to do an unexpected immediate euthanization last summer. It was heartbreaking.

 

[RockyToggRanch]

Thanks. His weight is not terrible, but I like my animals plump. He was having trouble chewing hay last yr. spitting it out in little chewed up clumps. I started him on hay stretcher with his senior grain and he's been able to maintain his weight. His feet have not seemed to bother him much. We not ridden him since he foundered.

 

[PattySh]

Have you tried to have his teeth floated? Horses as they age get sharp points that sometimes need to be filed off. If he has foundered you want to keep him a normal weight, anything heavier might predispose him to founder again.

 

[mydakota]

Have you tried to have his teeth floated? Horses as they age get sharp points that sometimes need to be filed off. If he has foundered you want to keep him a normal weight, anything heavier might predispose him to founder again.

When they drop hay from their mouths in little half chewed clumps it is called "quidding", and is a near sure sign they need their teeth floated. I would get that checked out, as letting it go can contribute to colic and ulcers and a whole host of other ailments you would probably rather avoid. A horse with a history of laminitis/founder should not be kept too heavy, but you don't want to keep them very thin either. It is not the weight itself that generally causes laminitis/ founder. It is a metabolic issue--and the weight is just another symptom of that.

FWIW, the terms "laminitis" and "founder" are NOT interchangeable. One is actually the result of the other. The hoof is made up of the bony structures of the skeleton, covered by the horny outer layer we all see. The soft, blood-vessel rich tissue that bind the two together is called the laminae. During a laminitis episode, these tissues swell up, impeding circulation. If the laminae are deprived of oxygen long enough, they begin to die off. If enough of this occurs, the bones in the hoof become loosened enough to either rotate or sink within the hoof capsule. The result is what is known as "founder". If the inflammation is stopped quickly, before the laminae start to die off, the horse is not then "foundered" and can make a full recovery. That is why time is of the essence during a laminitic episode. If you can get NSAIDS into them, and cold water on them fast enough, it might be possible to get the swelling down enough to save the laminae. Just like with a heart attack, time is tissue. Don't hesitate to call the vet right away. It can have a huge impact on the outcome. Founder/laminitis is most often (but not always) a metabolic issue. (rather like diabetes) Usually, you will have to alter the horses daily management (mostly DIET ) to prevent it from happening again.

Also, most horses--regardless of age- should have their teeth checked as part of a standard annual checkup. Floating used to be thought of as something done for older horses, but actually they should be checked annually from a pretty young age. I always get both my horses checked/done every year with annual shots.

 

[RockyToggRanch]

Yes he has had his teeth floated every yr by my vets. I haven't had them out yet this yr. I just found a # for an equine dentist on CL. maybe I'll give him a call.

My barefoot trimmer has been a huge help with his feet and with making suggestions for his diet. He is very thin, but he gets a lot of feed and stretcher pellets as well as unlimited hay.

 

[mydakota]

Yes he has had his teeth floated every yr by my vets. I haven't had them out yet this yr. I just found a # for an equine dentist on CL. maybe I'll give him a call.

My barefoot trimmer has been a huge help with his feet and with making suggestions for his diet. He is very thin, but he gets a lot of feed and stretcher pellets as well as unlimited hay.

Hmm. Sounds like you are on it. Have you considered adding corn oil to his pellets? I do rehab for a rescue from time to time and have worked on the skinnies before. One of the things I sometimes do to get weight on a very skinny horse is make a mash out his pelleted feed (which will help until you get his teeth floated too) and add a half a cup (or more if they will eat it) of corn oil to it. Great way to up the calories in a slow-burn fat (instead of sugar) way and it isn't terribly expensive.

 

[RockyToggRanch]

I haven't tried that. I should give it a go. He's not so thin that he looks neglected, but his hips are noticeable and his ribs are barely visible. I worry about putting more weight on him since his feet are doing better.

He has no problem at all chewing his BS senior and haystretcher. Doesn't drop a single pellet. He is very finnicky about anything on his feed. I'll try a little corn oil at a time.

Thanks for the advice.