Purebreds vs crossbreds

[cbobgo]

Hello, I just joined the forum, as I have just moved into a 2.3 ac property. We currently have a small flock of chickens and will eventually get some goats once the property is adequately fenced.

I am doing research on LGDs, as I intend to get one soon. I have been reading a lot about the different breeds, but I come from a science background and am very familiar with genetic problems (as my son has a rare genetic condition) so I generally lean more away from the inbreeding that can happen with purebred animals. But the flipside of that is that with a purebred dog you have a better likelyhood of getting the guardian skills that you are looking for.

So, I just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were on purebred dogs vs crossbred. I will be looking for a dog that comes from working parents, regardless of the breed.

- bob

 

[Southern by choice]

You are safe with LGD x LGD these are not really considered mutts/mixes in the lgd world. They are just LGD's

I would strongly advise not to get a LGD breed x with a NON LGD breed.. Disaster waiting to happen.

My background is herding and working with other working type breeds. Although LGD breed are in the "working" groups they are not like ANY other kinds of dogs, they should be their own species.

There is great vigor in the LGD x LGD crosses... some i prefer over other. Purebreds often coming from AKC confirmation or showy lines generally are not working dogs.

I look at the field where they are coming from.... when I see a 15 year old pyr along with 10 year olds still in the field that says way more to me about their health than any papers or testing.

 

[Grazer]

I agree with everything Southern said.
Crossing an LGD breed to another LGD breed is not a problem.
Because although each LGD breed is a little different, they are all related and were all bred for the same function, i.e. guarding livestock.
Here's a list with LGD breeds (some are already FCI/AKC recognized, others will one day be officially recognized, and then there are some who are just a variety within an already recognized LGD breed): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestock_guardian_dog#List_of_breeds

The problem arises when people cross LGD breeds to non-LGD breeds.

Your best bet is to get a puppy from a working stock. Visit the breeder and its dogs; make sure the breeder is knowledgeable & cares about functionality, good health and a correct temperament.

 

[cbobgo]

Thanks for the feedback.

Today I found a rancher/breeder about 4 hours away that will have Akbash/Kangal pups in about 3 months. Website looks pretty respectable, pic of parents look good, price is $500 which seems to be reasonable. I will probably go take a look at them.

- bob

 

[Southern by choice]

great!

How old do they keep the pups to?

Just a FYI- there are some people here in the states that are using/training the kangals and kangal crosses for dog fighting... it is really happening more with the kangals.

See the parent stock and see how the animals do with the livestock.
The breeder should have the pups in with the livestock with parent stock.

Ask for de-worming records/dates and vaccine records/dates.

...and of course you must post pics for us pic addicts!

 

[MDres]

Just a FYI- there are some people here in the states that are using/training the kangals and kangal crosses for dog fighting... it is really happening more with the kangals.

I've been really suspicious of that myself. I hate to hear it.

There was someone posting pictures, I cannot remember what forum/website it was on, but.... The pics were of Kangals in Turkey and other countries - dogs that were being sold/imported to the US. The dogs did not have traditional cultural studded collars on, but instead had typical USA "tough dog" collars on, and the handlers in the picture WERE NOT herders/farmers. They were high-maintenance looking men with fashionable clothes, current styles, and their demeanor just looked like they were dog-fighters. Not that you can stereo-type that, well, I guess you can, but these guys looked like they had never been outside the city. And there were no pictures of the dogs "working" - just pictures of the dogs standing in a conformation pose.

 

[secuono]

With a two acre lot, you might be better off just putting up electric fencing.

But I agree with LGD x LGD, never LGD x any other group.

 

[cbobgo]

Thanks for the feedback. This place is a working goat ranch, it does not look suspicious for fighting dogs at all. He said he keeps the pups until they are 3-4 months old.

I will certainly post pics when I get a dog.

As far as fencing goes, we will have good fencing, but critters have a way of getting over and under and through it, so I want a second line of defense.

- bob

 

[Southern by choice]

That is great... As a trainer I would hold all dogs til 12 wks but prefer for LGD's 16 wks... and recommend this to breeders... very few are willing to keep them past 8 weeks, but it does cost more. Wormings til 16 wks, all shots other than rabies and moving and working dogs with all types of livestock takes time. Then there is assessment... first by 8 wks then continually evaluated for the right fit/home.

Start pup to get trained to hotwire RIGHT away! The breeder sounds like they might already do that but I'd ask. Hotwire will save your dogs life too.

All4 of our LGD's HATE the wire. They do respect it though!

Our 1 pyr M can get out of anything but he doesn't.... he is actually pretty obedient even without hot wire but only our Anatolian can be outside the fenced areas without taking off... pyr trait... they just go!

Have you any experience with kangals or akbash or any type LGD? If not you will want good support. Trust me on this one.

@MDers- Yeah... I have seen those pics too! I have seen pics where they are training for protection work.. kind of like schutzhund... NO LGD should ever be trained for such things and once again dumb people doing dumb things at the expense of truly great dogs!

 

[MDres]

I *think* what secuono meant was that 2 acres isn't a lot of space for a LGD to "work". They are prone to wandering, and are escape artists. I would be sure that your fencing on that 2 acres can contain your LGD, or that all your neighbors are aware that you have a LGD that might wander onto their property.