seeking input: mini rex color and mystery breeds

[pandorasun6]

This is going to be a long post:

I have 4 mini rex does that came without pedigree or color type. I have 3 adopted/rescued bucks of undetermined breed. After days of research on genotype and phenotype, this is what I've got so far, please help me determine if I am right or not!!

First Doe: Sweetpea. she just had a litter of 6 3 days ago with Barnaby. They are all black (as would be expected)

Close up on fur makes me think she is Lilac. any opinions? there is a slight orangish tinge to the light grey but no banding on the hairs, yet a light undercoat
This is the buck, Barnaby, I think he is a Havana (?) any opinions?

These are the new kits

Second Doe: Loretta She has white marks from scars where another rabbit bit her badly. She hasn't built a nest but should be due very soon.

her fur is solid color, no banding on the hair, I think she is Blue

Third Doe: Miss Priss , she had 4 kits 9 weeks ago. I think she is a broken castor without butterfly

This is Napoleon the Buck, a rescue bunny, I think he is a mini rex and netherland dwarf cross/ and obviously a Charlie

These are their 4 kits:

girl

girl

boy

girl with blue eyes

close of girl with blue eyes

Fourth Doe: Flopsy, she busted out of her cage and mated with Cooter, a dutch bunny with imperfect markings and had 7 kits 10 weeks ago

I think Flopsy is also a broken castor and she has full butterfly

This is the buck, Cooter, another rescue bunny that is a dutch with only half a saddle

These are the kits:

this is the one we are keeping

he looks like a castor

Any help identifying the breeds of my bucks or corrections on phenotype's would be greatly appreciated! What I really need here is a mini rex buck to make this a legit breeding program, but these are just being sold as pets and we aren't interested in show bunnies at this time anyway. They are cute, cuddly and even litter box trained!

Thanks!

 

[Bunnylady]

Napoleon may or may not be a Charlie (though I suspect he is); I have seen a lot of broken Netherland Dwarfs with little more color than he has. He might be part Dwarf Hotot - the eye circles on his offspring look pretty clean for random brokens.

This rabbit is a Chestnut. Castor is a color specific to Rex/Mini Rex; it is a deeper, redder variation on Chestnut.

 

[pandorasun6]

Napoleon may or may not be a Charlie (though I suspect he is); I have seen a lot of broken Netherland Dwarfs with little more color than he has. He might be part Dwarf Hotot - the eye circles on his offspring look pretty clean for random brokens.

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/8392_bob_2.jpg

This rabbit is a Chestnut. Castor is a color specific to Rex/Mini Rex; it is a deeper, redder variation on Chestnut.

Thank you! So even though the mother is a broken castor mini rex, he would not be considered castor because his father is a dutch? Oh this is so complicated. Chestnut sounds good, or "wild rabbit" color. Do you think the first 2 does are lilac and blue? I couldn't decide what the first one was because the fur is so light, almost white, underneath yet there is no banding to it.

The dwarf hotot , I had wondered if he could be a hotot/mini rex mix. His genes are certainly dominant. Do you know anything about the Vienna gene? I have just started reading about it. He sired one blue eyed doe which I thought was interesting.

 

[Bunnylady]

Thank you! So even though the mother is a broken castor mini rex, he would not be considered castor because his father is a dutch? Oh this is so complicated. Chestnut sounds good, or "wild rabbit" color. Do you think the first 2 does are lilac and blue? I couldn't decide what the first one was because the fur is so light, almost white, underneath yet there is no banding to it.

I wouldn't consider him a Castor, partly because he isn't Rex-coated, and partly because he isn't Castor in color. Chestnut is pretty much the wild-type rabbit color, which that rabbit is. Castor is that color, plus extra red from some rufus modifiers. It is a deeper, richer shade than Chestnut. Some people consider any full-color agouti with a Rex coat a Castor, but there is a difference. Depending on the judge, if you put one of the lighter ones on a show table, it might get points off for "poor color," or it might get DQ'd for being an unshowable color (in the Rex/Mini Rex, Castor is showable, Chestnut isn't). I think you are right about the does' colors, though. Lighter colors often show sun bleaching pretty quickly, that's what the orangy tinge on Sweetpea looks like to me.

The dwarf hotot , I had wondered if he could be a hotot/mini rex mix. His genes are certainly dominant. Do you know anything about the Vienna gene? I have just started reading about it. He sired one blue eyed doe which I thought was interesting.

Those blue eyes with the dark eyeliner are pretty striking, aren't they? Vienna is a funny gene. While rabbits with 2 copies of the Vienna gene are always white rabbits with blue eyes (unless they also have 2 REW/Himi genes, too), those with only one copy may or may not have blue eyes, or even one of each. Vienna-marked rabbits usually have some white markings on them, but on a rabbit that is mostly white anyway, how can you tell?