Two horse behaviour issues i need help with ;-)

[miss_thenorth]

Thunder, my dd's 4yo paint/percheron gelding, has two behaviour issues we need some help with. I am hoping you guys might be able to help.

Issue #1: biting and general lipping. he has always been a lipper, and we have tried our best to discourage it. He has never bit anyone until yesterday. My dd and I were out on a trail ride, and dd got off. When she went to remount, he turned his head and chomped on her back thigh. Even with our correction when he does lip us, he seems to be getting worse, and now he has bitten. We need to stop this.

Issue #2: pawing at the ground. While pawing might be considered normal in some instances, it's getting out of hand. He has had issues before about pawing and stomping while waiting for his food, and we corrected that by not giving him his food until he had not stomped for a bit. He does still paw while he is eating. But now, he has started pawing while in the cross-ties while being groomed and tacked, and this needs to stop too, for the safety aspect. Also while on trail rides, while he is stopped, he will paw while the rider is still on him.

He is very mild mannered, calm and generally a great horse to have. We love him dearly and just need to work on these two issues.


We are not exactly sure how to correct these behaviours, so I am putting it out here to hear your advice.

Thanks!

 

[lupinfarm]

Number one for pawing is definitely saddle fit. How is his saddle fitting him? Other tack, how is that fitting? Have you had him checked for back soreness, or soreness elsewhere on the body?

My 5 year old lips, and she gets told off for it which so far appears to be helping very well.

Sorry I couldn't be more help!

 

[WesternChick]

my horse used to have problems with pawing until we disconvered she had a calous type thing on her frog. after removing that it fixed the problem.

 

[miss_thenorth]

Number one for pawing is definitely saddle fit. How is his saddle fitting him? Other tack, how is that fitting? Have you had him checked for back soreness, or soreness elsewhere on the body?

My 5 year old lips, and she gets told off for it which so far appears to be helping very well.

Sorry I couldn't be more help!

Saddle fit is perfectly fine, most of his pawing is when he is not tacked up. Just when he is in the cross ties being groomed. or when eating or when just when mulling around the paddock. It was just that once that he pawed while under saddle.

Telling him off for lipping is not working--he is getting extremely lippy, and now this once he took a chomp. We have avoided bringing our hands near his mouth at all, but when we groom him, we let him sniff the grooming tools and he lips them, or he'll reach over while you are doing something else, and he'll lip then too. Agravating as that is, as long as he doesn't bite we were not concerned. now he bit, so we are concerned. now I'm paranoid to pick out his hooves for fear of being bit.

 

[miss_thenorth]

my horse used to have problems with pawing until we disconvered she had a calous type thing on her frog. after removing that it fixed the problem.

Interesting--he is due for a trim on Sunday--maybe that is the issue--his frogs are thick and peeling.

 

[michickenwrangler]

One of my previous horses used to paw, mainly out of boredom. When she got older and learned to stand tied in cross-ties or a hitching post she didn't paw quite so much.

Your horse needs to get clocked with an elbow when he THINKS about biting, timing needs to be perfect. The biting indicates that HE is alpha, not you or daughter, so you need to show him that you are in charge. An elbow in the side of his neck and a loud "No" will probably work. Just be sure to be confident around him. Widen eyes when you correct him, horses understand body language very well. I've seen too many horses get away with biting and other poor ground manners because the owners are too afraid to discipline them. I would never advocate needless violence against a horse, but in a pasture or wild setting, they do interact physically.

So, stand tall, walk straight up to him, go about your routine, when picking out hooves, stand a little ways away and watch your peripheral vision. If he does bite again, stand up tall, widen eyes, smack his neck and say in that deep, trainer voice "NO!". If you can get your elbow to get him in the mouth as he comes at you, so much the better. Again, timing is everything. If you do not discipline the horse in a second or two, he will not know what he is being punished for.

But first, check hooves, teeth & even back to rule out physical pain.

 

[lupinfarm]

I super agree with michickenwrangler, I remember very vividly when I was about 13 I had my horse in the crossties and the farrier was moving from foot to foot checking them out before trimming and when he started trimming Pal took a nice chunk out of his butt, pal got a big smack for that. Totally uncalled for behaviour and he never did it again.

 

[miss_thenorth]

One of my previous horses used to paw, mainly out of boredom. When she got older and learned to stand tied in cross-ties or a hitching post she didn't paw quite so much.

Your horse needs to get clocked with an elbow when he THINKS about biting, timing needs to be perfect. The biting indicates that HE is alpha, not you or daughter, so you need to show him that you are in charge. An elbow in the side of his neck and a loud "No" will probably work. Just be sure to be confident around him. Widen eyes when you correct him, horses understand body language very well. I've seen too many horses get away with biting and other poor ground manners because the owners are too afraid to discipline them. I would never advocate needless violence against a horse, but in a pasture or wild setting, they do interact physically.

So, stand tall, walk straight up to him, go about your routine, when picking out hooves, stand a little ways away and watch your peripheral vision. If he does bite again, stand up tall, widen eyes, smack his neck and say in that deep, trainer voice "NO!". If you can get your elbow to get him in the mouth as he comes at you, so much the better. Again, timing is everything. If you do not discipline the horse in a second or two, he will not know what he is being punished for.

But first, check hooves, teeth & even back to rule out physical pain.

Thanks. When he bit my dd, she was mounting, and she was taken by surprise, since he had never done ti before, but she reacted well. he got the message. When we went out for a ride today, (jsut got back and my butt is sore, lol), he was fine while we tacked him. And we are very aware while picking out his hooves.--so our reaction time is right on. Our horses know we are the boss(es). So, on that note--how would you recommend correcting the lipping. We have been giving him a stern NO, and pinching his lip, as well as avoiding as much as possible hand mouth contact. He's fine putting the bridle in, etc. some people say it is just the percheron in him, and while some might think it's cute ( my dh included) I find it very annoying.

 

[lupinfarm]

Totally agree, its not cute at all and can cause more problems down the line. If you're familiar with Clinton Anderson you'll know about lunging for respect. It could even be helpful with his pawing, and I have used this with my own horses in the past. Clinton describes making the horse move its feet when it does something undesirable. Since the pawing doesn't happen when he's tacked up, you could realistically bring him outside and start brushing and whenever he paws push him, make him move his feet. The purpose is to get the horse to understand that maybe if they stop the behaviour they'll get to stand still!

We had a Percheron gelding at one point who ate our barn. Literally, piece for piece, he ate one entire side of our wood barn.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Percherons have a lot of Arab blood in them so they are smarter than other draft breeds A woman in Bay City who does carriage rides through the historical districy has to water her horses twice a day like they did back in the old days rather than keep water in their stalls because they will upend the buckets and fling them, even if they're snapped in place or on bucket hooks.

The lipping thing probably got your horse treats or attention in the past. Only give treats in a bucket and don't reward him (not even a smile or laugh) when he does it.

Good luck