TX, TURKISH KANGAL LGD's

[MonsterMalak]

Have for sale 2 male Turkish Kangal Livestock Guardian Puppies. Born 02/23/11.
View www.monstermalak.com
Price $1,000, reduction for testing placement to areas of large predator or heavy pressure areas. Possible transport to MT with other pups going to a breeder. Pups in pasture with miniature cattle and parents.

Brian; 903-373-1289
brianpeckinpaugh@yahoo.com

 

[elevan]

I just wanted to say that your dogs are lovely.

 

[carolinagirl]

Your dogs are nice. Are the parents OFA certified?

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Your dogs are nice. Are the parents OFA certified?

What is OFA certification? and why is it needed/desired?

 

[carolinagirl]

Your dogs are nice. Are the parents OFA certified?

What is OFA certification? and why is it needed/desired?

OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. After the age of 2, a dog's hips are xrayed by a vet the the films are sent to the OFA. They determine if the dog has any evidence of hip dysplasia, a VERY common hereditary condition in dogs, but more common in large dogs. It is more common in some breeds than others. ALL reputable breeders of dogs should not breed a dog prior to OFA certification to rule out the hereditary conditions that are common to their breed. Anatolian shepherds (and kangle dogs) are not plagued by these diseases as often as other breeds, but they DO still occur and should be ruled out prior to breeding. A dog with bad hips makes a lousy guardian animal.

http://www.offa.org/

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Your dogs are nice. Are the parents OFA certified?

What is OFA certification? and why is it needed/desired?

OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. After the age of 2, a dog's hips are xrayed by a vet the the films are sent to the OFA. They determine if the dog has any evidence of hip dysplasia, a VERY common hereditary condition in dogs, but more common in large dogs. It is more common in some breeds than others. ALL reputable breeders of dogs should not breed a dog prior to OFA certification to rule out the hereditary conditions that are common to their breed. Anatolian shepherds (and kangle dogs) are not plagued by these diseases as often as other breeds, but they DO still occur and should be ruled out prior to breeding. A dog with bad hips makes a lousy guardian animal.

http://www.offa.org/

THANKS!

 

[carolinagirl]

THANKS!

you are welcome! It just seems to me that if I am going to have a dog for 12+ years, I would like to know that it's chance of inheriting some disease from a parent is low. Too many people have purchased dogs from back yard breeders, only to face expensive surgery or euthanasia a few years down the road due to some debilitating orthopedic or medical condition that could have been avoided if the breeder had just done the responsible thing and had his dogs screened for inheritable problems. I know I won't even consider purchasing a pup from a breeder who won't OFA certify his dogs.

 

[MonsterMalak]

Thanks for the interest in my dogs. They are my love.

As of now, I have not had my dogs OFA certified. I truely did not intend to breed this last liter.
My attempts to contain my sire was ineffective in the heat of the moment. The parents are a little over a year old at this time.

I do have concerns with the OFA though.
One is the accuracy in false positives that show up in the studies.
The other is the Kangal's and Guregh's sensitivity to anesthesia.
The thought of loosing a dog that cost me $3,300-$3,800 to get over here from Turkey, just to certify negative for a condition that has a very low incidence in the breed.

In The Urfa mountains, the peoples culture of breeding to the males and females that are 8-12 years old, that have won many battles with predators, killed many wolves, and worked hard all their lives has greatly reduced the incidence of illness, skeletal problems, and the short life expectancy of many huge breeds of dogs.

But I am researching different Vets, looking for one that might be able to XRay without Anesthesia, or at least minimal.
The Pennhip method has even a greater incidence of false positives, and needs greater sedation.

I understand the desire of a person searching for a puppy to want to obtain a healthy dog. Every pup I sell comes with a 100% Replacement Policy for any reason. Firstly, I do not want someone to have a dog of mine and not be satisfied. Second, if the pup did not work out to their situation, I do not want it to end up abandoned or killed. I would rather replace the pup, and rehome it in an environment to which its personality would fit. Every pup will not turn out to work in every situation, and I would like to remove the buyers risk.

My experience with LGD's started with running Great Pyrenees for over 15 years, then converting to the Kangals to gain effectivness in predator control. Also, after owning and breeding Kangals for 7 years, neither any of my dogs, or any that I have sold have been reported to have had any type of orthopedic (Or any health problem). I feel this comes from obtaining dogs that were from strong working lines in a country where the selection process is severe. Where few dogs are able to withstand the harsh environment, poor diet, hard work, constant testing and predator pressure. And the dogs that are able to function and thrive under this pressure for 8-12 years have ruled out for having the health issues more common in other breeds, before passing on their genetics.

But back to the question, when I can find a reasonably safe method of certification, and they reach the proper age, I do plan to have this done.

 

[carolinagirl]

I understand your concerns about anesthesia. Kangal and Anatolians are essentially the same breed (share the same ancestors) and have the same sensitivity to anesthesia. My vet can do a test for $50 that will determine if the anesthesia will be an issue or not. I intend to have this test done because Id like to be prepared in the event my dog is ever in need of emergency surgery. Many vets can do OFA x-rays with no anesthesia, but it depends on how well you train the dog to lie still in the proper position while the films are being taken. Its also possible to do it with just sedation and not full anesthesia. A false positive will only occur if the dog is positioned improperly. So make sure your vet is proficient in OFA x-rays before allowing him to do it.

I know you offer a guarantee, but how heartbreaking it must be for someone to love a dog for 5 or 6 years, only to find out that hip replacement surgery is necessary. A replacement puppy does not make up for that heartbreak or the expense of that surgery, which runs around $5000 or more.

And the dogs that are able to function and thrive under this pressure for 8-12 years have ruled out for having the health issues more common in other breeds, before passing on their genetics.

This statement is a little misleading. The Turkish dogs to not have to prove themselves for 8 to 12 years before passing on their genetics. They pretty much reproduce when they come of age to do so, assuming they are considered to be worthy. But at the age of 2 or 3 when they are breeding, they are passing along their genetics. They may break down with dysplasia when they reach 7 or 8, but by then have already passed along the genetic trait for the disease to untold number of pups.

Even though there is a low incident of dysplasia in these dogs, its still important to rule it out before breeding. Its only fair to the buyer who is paying quite a bit for your puppies.

 

[MonsterMalak]

As I stated before, this is something I intend to do when the parents reach two years old. The breeding was not planned with the parents being less than two. So short of disposing of the puppies due to a extremely unlikely possibility, what are the options? Going back 3 to 4 generations, not a single dog in the pedigrees has had any bone or joint issues. So I see little justification for this. Free replacement for any reason has always been my policy, which is something I have never seen any breeder offer.

Thanks for the information concerning the test for anesthesia sensitivity. Evidently my vet did not know of this. May need to find another.

When questioning with regards to hip dysplasia, most Turks from these areas are unaware of what Hip Dysplasia is. The ones that are knowledgable of it know it from the crossbred dogs in the cities. They contribute it to western breeds. So it is either seldom seen, or infrequent enough to be mistaken for an injury.

So, like I said, I do agree with you on the importance of testing. And will do so when they reach the proper age.
Most of my puppies have been placed with LGD breeders, and mostly to Kangal breeders. But they also know my dogs, their siblings, parents, and the dogs that they came from in both Syria and Turkey.

I have run Great Pyrenees for over 15 years, befrinded many Turkish people, traded innumerable communications with Kangal and Boz Shepherd or Guregh breeders in Turkey, Germany, Bulgaria, Mexico and Syria. My first Kangals were obtained 7 years ago, and I have never had a single customer ask for a replacement.

With my comment about the culture of the Turks breeding to the Dogs that have proven themselves for 8-10 years, it was refering to just that. The practices of the people from which areas I imported from are just that, only after they have proven themselves. One of my pups mother was born to a 12 year old female. All of the parents were at least 5, with most over 8 years old. By this time, they have traveled thousands of miles, fought many predators and each other, and many have pulled tractors weighing 10,000+ pounds. This may be a stronger practice in the Urfa Mountains than where you are more familiar with. So to make a statement of my information being misleading is unfair.

I have researched many of my dogs siblings in Turkey and other countries, along with their parents and parents siblings. So please forgive me for allowing a male to escape and breed unintentionally. As I do not think the refrences to my being unfair are fair. The pups are priced at half of what the going price for Kangals is, and without the contracts, co-ownerships, and spaying or neutering (which when done at 8 weeks, ruins them) that is a common practice used to maintain a monopoly of the breed. I offer a (any reason ) exchange, and if the person was out undo expense for medical cost, I would surely compensate them, or offer two pups. How many breeders do you know that advertise this level of guarantee. I feel that I am more than fair, and offer quality puppies.

And as I stated before, this is something that I have intended to do.