VERY skinny doe - updated post 38 - bottlejaw :(

[Bunny-kids]

Hi all,

I have a doe that kidded 3-5. She's been doing poorly since she was in her last month of pregnancy, but she's taking a real slide now in the past couple of days. I'm really worried about her.

She got loose minerals through the end of pregnancy, fed extra grain, always has free access to hay, and there's a lot of green out there. She was too thin at the end of her pregnancy, and her legs started bowing in. This is the doe that had a doeling with weak legs. The doeling is very fine now, btw. (thanks all!)

She was probably too young to be bred (buck got in with her - she's a yearling) but she grew SO well as a kid, I didn't lute her and let her carry them. I wish now I hadn't let her have them (twins).

I've been trying to put some weight on her, but I just found out a couple days ago that she's been leaving grain in her trough. I wasn't checking (stupid me) but I've never had a goat NOT eat grain. I got suspicious when one of my other does started having fits in the morning wanting to get in this one's stall, and sure enough, she leaves grain every night. She does dig around like she's LOOKING for something, but she won't eat all the grain. She still gets loose minerals daily. I also gave her a shot of BoSe after she kidded. She can have another one if need be.

She scoured green after we had some flooding here, and the foliage came out really fast. I tried to get her to eat more hay and she cleared up after a day or two, but she's had intermittent scours since then. I checked her eyelids not long ago (maybe 8 days), and she was fine. Today I went out and she is TERRIBLY thin ... she's like a skeleton along her back. Behind her ribs is terribly sunken. She's had scours overnight in her stall. Her inner eyelids are almost white. All the others had fine eyelids last time I checked (I think it's been about 8 days) but I'm going to check them all again. The others all look quite fine (couple of does, buck, wether, and 4 kids).

I haven't milked her at all, since she seemed not to be doing too well and had twins. I've been bringing her into the back yard for two mornings now since she seems crazy to get to the extra clover there. I brought her back to give her more grain, but she only eats a little of it. I don't have any goat pellets, but I gave her a couple of cups of rabbit pellets this morning to see if she'd like them better than grain. She ate some, but started pawing at the dish and shoving the food around like she's looking for something again. She only ate about 1/3 of it. She will graze heavily on clover, specifically. BTW, I read that clover has lots of a type of tannin, I think it is, that they say helps supress barberpole. I don't know ...

It's just now warming up ... hot a few days. Coolish nights. Plenty of rain. Pasture's been growing for a while now (couple months). Last year we had such a drought it was all like drylot out there and I didn't have to worm at all. She's never been wormed, consequently. She was born several months before the drought started though.

I'm going to learn to do my own fecals, but I'm not there yet. Work has picked up a little (was unemployed for a LONG time so I have a lot of catching up to do) ... I might be able to afford a fecal, but I'm still behind on things. I'd rather put the money to meds she needs, if I can. I'm still at the point of having to choose, financially. I have red cell on hand. I'm out of wormer. Got BoSe. At this point I'm ready to give her molasses just to get some calories in her. Thinking of adding it to water cuz I'm thinking she's dehydrated just from the scours. I do keep a good sized trough of clean water out there in the shade. They often choose to drink from the goose pools though.

Am I missing anything? Would appreciate any ideas or suggestions. I've never seen one go downhill like this, and I'm really afraid I may lose her. I really want stronger animals in my breeding program, but I can make decisions about that later. I feel like I haven't treated her right anyway by allowing her to kid so young, even though I gave her lots of extra feed. She had such potential as a kid. Whether I decide to keep her in my breeding program or not, I'd like to save her if possible, and her kids aren't ready to wean yet either.

Thanks.

 

[redtailgal]

Can you get a fecal done on her? I would suggest that you get one ASAP.

Her eyelids being fine would suggest that she does not have barberpole worms, but there are several other worms that could be in there that wont show paleness in the eyelid, such as the brown stomach worm.

I know that she is an adult, but with your rain and her just delivering, maybe she's got an overload of coccidia.

I've still got a lot to learn about goats, but I would be very surprised if you didnt have a pretty wormy doe.

I'd also suggest a B12 shot to help with her energy and appetite.

I'm sure that others will chime in here soon and give you more (and probably better) suggestions.

 

[Bunny-kids]

Thanks, Redtail,

I know I rambled a bit. Just to clarify ... her eyelids WERE fine. Now she is almost whited out.

I hadn't thought of B-12. I have some injectable for my dog. I wonder if I can give her that ... need to look into it.

If anyone may be familiar with it, what I have is Cyanocobalamin injection, (b-12) 1,000 mcg/ml. The name on it is Cytex.

Thanks!!!

 

[Pearce Pastures]

Given she is young still and that just kidded, I am on board with RedTailGal on the coccidiosis, which can take a goat out quickly. Do you have a vet who would write you a RX for a drug called SMZ-TMP---this was suggested to me by member of this forum when I had a really sick doe and I am sure it saved her furry behind. I had already tried a sulfa on her and it helped but was not working well enough. Withing 24 hrs of starting her on SMT-TMP, the scours started clearin gup and she was acting sooo much more like herself.

 

[currycomb]

WORM THE GOAT, with a mild wormer first, then in 10 days with some heavy duty stuff. panacur first, then cydectin. put red cell into all the while. her not eating the grain means she has stomach issues which equals worms. no need for fecal, just worm for everything. the intermitent loose stools is a clue. you could treat for coccidia as well. better hurry, sounds like she is on her last leg.

 

[Bunny-kids]

Thanks, I called and talked to the vet. They will run a fecal for $15 checking for worms, coccidia. There is fresh scour in her stall from this morning, so I may just run that in.

I really do hate to lose her. Normally they will give a script for whatever I ask for, and if it's coccidia they only have Albion anyway. I have to make a run out of town for several hours today, so since I can't even watch her I may just have the fecal.


Ah, answer while I was typing ...

Worm with something mild ... (edit, sorry, didn't see your whole answer)

OK, off to the feed store, don't have those. Thanks!

 

[redtailgal]

To worm the goat with the wrong wormer and less than a full dose will lead to resistant worms, that will, in turn, infect the rest of your herd.

I HIGHLY recommend a fecal check, so that you KNOW what type of worm you are dealing with, and you get the RIGHT wormer at the right dosage......At this point, you need to consider the rest of the herd and the kids, as well as this doe.



Here is an excellent article on this:

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt

 

[Bunny-kids]

Ah, and I didn't realize that pancur was the same thing as safeguard. I've used it before on VERY weak doeling with a bad case of barberpole. Not sure it really worked, I did manage to keep her alive until I treated more aggressively.

I gotta sort out my finances, and time. I have to be somewhere in a couple of hours, and the vet is half an hour in the other direction. And the feed store only takes cash, meaning I'd have to drive to another town first.

Lovely living so far out, isn't it? (Really, I do love it)

OK ... I think I"m going to check on her, give her some red cell and maybe even molasses, if she looks ok, I think I'll get the fecal. I'm actually VERY against throwing wormers at a goat willy-nilly (vets here say to worm every two months, rotating wormers, never doing a fecal, and I think we do have a lot of resistance because of that). I DO worm, but only when my goats get an overload. Last time I did any worming was almost two years ago.

Thanks for the info, will appreciate anything extra as well.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

To worm the goat with the wrong wormer and less than a full dose will lead to resistant worms, that will, in turn, infect the rest of your herd.

I HIGHLY recommend a fecal check, so that you KNOW what type of worm you are dealing with, and you get the RIGHT wormer at the right dosage......At this point, you need to consider the rest of the herd and the kids, as well as this doe.



Here is an excellent article on this:

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt

x2

I totally get how hard it is so be financially strapped and need vet service. Fecals might cost $5 depending on the vet and it would give you peace of mind that you are treating for the right thing and safe you money in medications that don't hit the mark. Keep us posted and I am sending good thoughts your way

Sorry, posted before I saw you had reposted

 

[Bunny-kids]

That cheap? My vet charges $15 ... (and darnit, for $17 I can buy safeguard paste and sulmet).

Well, I got a few small freelance jobs. It's all gonna go for fecals and goat meds, probably, LOL. Better than if I had no work at all, I guess.

She felt good enough to fight me on the red cell. I managed to get around 12 mL down her. Still not wanting pellets. That's maybe $15 saved, because I was going to buy goat feed to see if she'd eat that. Of course, it would be eaten by the others and not a waste anyway.

I need to run on my errand. I think I'm going to drop off the fecal. Incentive for me to get the rest of the equipment and work on learning to do my own. I've read about it is all, and I'm hoping the microscope I have is good enough.

Seriously though, I guess I do need to find out what's going on with her, for the others' sake. The whole cost isn't as much as I can probably get for just one of the kids. (Can't keep them all, 3 are bucklings, but I'm gonna hate to see them go ... they are a lot of fun to watch.)

Haha, and the water in the back is dripping. Guess I'll need to replace the hose bib tonight. I'm going to have to shut off the water for now. The geese are digging a nice little mudhole under the house in the dripping water.

When it rains it pours?

Thanks for all the input, y'all. I can't see any reason not to give her the B-12 I have on hand, so I'll give her some of that tonight. Hopefully the iron and b-12 will perk her up a bit. You'd think I'd have thought of that, my dog was a walking skeleton 4 months ago (canine EPI) and the B-12 is what finally turned him around and let him put weight on again. Somehow I can't think straight when it's my own animals.