what age to breed?

[chicken fruit]

I've heard waiting for the 1 year mark can cause fertility issues, plus its not the natural breeding age for a goat in the first place. Should I breed my goatlings at 8-9 months, around their first breeding season?

I have alpines, which means they breed in the fall, so if i didnt breed them this fall they'd be nearly 2 by next breeding season...

So I'd want to breed them THIS fall right, at about 9 months old?

(this is my first go with dairying goats, not sure which is best!)

 

[cmjust0]

All the books and so forth will tell you to breed by weight, not age, and that the weight needs to be at least 70lbs..

When our first "home grown" does hit 70lbs during their first fall, we were like...uh, NO. They're TEENY at 70lbs.. I have a weaning-age buck who weighed in at 43lbs the other day, and his sister weighed in at 35, and they were only 8wks old.. NO WAY she's halfway to breeding weight, in my opion.

We wait 'til the 2nd Fall with our does. Lots of people these days seem to be doing the same thing.

I haven't heard of anybody having fertility problems. We didn't have any problems like that..

 

[Lil-patch-of-heaven]

So glad to hear that answer. I've got two doelings and was wondering too. They just don't look like there is any way I'd want to breed them this year. Dhis starting the buck pen today thankfully.

Both of my does were ff that were accidentally bred their first year. They are fine but ... Dh commented yesterday how much one of them has grown since we got her. The one with the unweaned kid is starting to look a bit thin and her color along the back is bleaching out. It seems I have to work on the does and doelings to get weight enough on them and keep them healthy looking while the buckling and wether just sap it out of them and fatten up.

I was worried when I read about fertility issues. I think that's a problem when delaying a rabbit doe's first litter too late. I was hoping not so with goats cuz I don't want to breed my little girls yet.

Thanks cmjust!

 

[Mea]

I've heard waiting for the 1 year mark can cause fertility issues, plus its not the natural breeding age for a goat in the first place. Should I breed my goatlings at 8-9 months, around their first breeding season?

I have alpines, which means they breed in the fall, so if i didnt breed them this fall they'd be nearly 2 by next breeding season...

So I'd want to breed them THIS fall right, at about 9 months old?

(this is my first go with dairying goats, not sure which is best!)

Years past...( back in the day) when we had Alpines we Did breed them the first year. We were on milk test at that time and there was a lot of talk about "Lifetime Production" and how by not breeding them the first year we could hold down their over all production records. Like i said that was a while ago...(early 1980s) The young does did alright...most got their Star milker designation. The longer we raised goats... the less i Liked breeding them so young.

Now... after a period of No Goaties...( horrors !) We have Nubians. I really do not like breeding them early... only one doe have we done that with. She, as a third freshener, is right up there in size and scope. But i have held every other doeling until their second year.

Interestingly... at the shows... in the milker classes.. especially the younger does... (2 and 3 year olds) the judges will often ask...how many times has this doe freshened ? ! And after sitting ringside and watching ... i can almost pick out those that have freshened more times... they have just a bit More maturity to them than one freshened fewer times. ( please note the word *almost* )

If a doe has grown Really well... one might consider breeding them the first year. Keeping in mind that they will certainly need extra nutrition to support both Their growth abd the Kids. IMO.....YMMV...

 

[cmjust0]

See, that's just it...the breed at 70lbs thing just seemed to be to be geared strictly toward PRODUCTION and accompanied by a lot of voodoo wisdom about why it's actually better, blah blah blah.

I don't buy it.

Same as I don't buy the argument that dairy kids MUST be snatch reared or they'll be terrible milkers later on account of unsociability, and how naturally nursing kids ruin their dam's teats for milking, etc.. To me, that's about getting the kids OFF mama and milk IN the bucket and the fridge ASAP.

I guess we're misfits.. We just kidded out a couple of 2yo FF's and are allowing them to raise their own kids. Their kids won't leave us alone when we go out there, either, constantly jumping up saying "PICK ME UP!! PICK ME UP!!"

 

[chicken fruit]

My thing is that in the wild goats will breed their first year, so it cant be that horrific. Who am I to decide that nature has it wrong? Granted its not a wild animal- but we're talking about a goat, not a dog or some other domesticated animal which is phenomenally different from its wild counterparts. Functionally theyre pretty much the same, albeit bred to produce more milk per freshening than a wild goat would have cause to. But in turn its being fed and cared for much better than a wild goat foraging on its own.

Even bred in its first year the domestic farm goat is certainly going to out live a wild goat with useful happy years?

Everything I've found says that in the long run there's no real difference found between does who were held over, and those who bred at 70-80 lbs at the end of their lives. Provided they were well cared for.

I think I'd lean more towards breeding earlier over later, but I really do want to know which direction most people are going with breeding and ages.

 

[cmjust0]

My thing is that in the wild goats will breed their first year, so it cant be that horrific. Who am I to decide that nature has it wrong? Granted its not a wild animal- but we're talking about a goat, not a dog or some other domesticated animal which is phenomenally different from its wild counterparts.

Here's something to consider: the slope from the hipbones to the base of the tail plays a role in birthing difficulties...the steeper the slope, the more likely the goat is to have problems.

Now, go look at a whitetail deer...they're practically FLAT across the topline, all the way from the base of the neck to the base of the tail. Hardly any slope at all.. Indeed, a whitetail doe has a form and shape that most dairy goat breeders would KILL to have in their herds.

Most don't... Tons of goats slope HARD at the hipbones..

Why? Well, because we humans screw with things.. We want more milk production, so we breed for that, and other things begin to start suffering.. Or, we want more meat, so we breed for that, and other things begin to start suffering.

Point being, you're not in the wild anymore -- you're raising animals which have been domesticated and screwed with for longer than any other species of livestock known to man. They're quite literally further away from "wild" than any other stock mankind keeps..

So just consider that before you decide any of this is nature's doing...as humans, we've been bitchslapping nature for a long time now, but the thing about nature is that she has a wicked nasty habit of giving it back MUCH better than she gets it.

Nature KILLS stuff she doesn't like.


That said...it's your call.