2-day doeling-knees bending out - followup question on doeling post 19

[Bunny-kids]

I second the Bose shot. It is selenium. For full size goats, I use 1/2 cc though. I would also watch them closely and make sure she is nursing. I would get that BoSe shot in her ASAP. I have seen miraculous things with just giving a BoSe shot.

OHHHH, I think I understand now.

I read some other threads here and got confused as well. I should get plenty of sleep before I dose anything, but that doeling needed help today.

I thought you meant 1/2 cc for KIDS of full size goats. I don't know why I read it that way ... probably because of the recommendations on another thread here. I was thinking it was 1/4 cc for Nigi kids and 1/2 cc for big kids.

So .15 cc wasn't that small a dose. Probably reasonably careful with her, since she's only 5 pounds. I think it's double the lamb rate (not that lamb doses are anything to calculate kid doses, but that's what the vet was trying to do).

It's almost 7pm. Everyone's in the barn for the night. I think I'll do one more check, eat dinner,a nd get some real sleep.

After the kids were born, I finally relaxed and zonked out last night, but ... then I woke up at 1 am and couldn't go back to sleep. Guess I'm too used to being up, LOL.

Thanks again.

 

[redtailgal]

That buck would be BBQ in a pretty quick hurry around here. I REFUSE to feed anything that I am frightened of.

. But, he is especially dangerous to you now that he knows that he won a battle, and he knows that you are afraid of him. There are way too many "polite" animals out there to deal with aggressive livestock.

I'm glad that you werent hurt! It sounds scary just reading about it!

 

[Queen Mum]

The Buck isn't bbq meat yet. I don't think it's an all or nothing kind of deal. With most goats it's a matter of training. They respond to fear and these are dominance issues. Since goats are herd animals, they respond to the herd leader. This guy used to see you as herd leader and when you were afraid, you created doubt as to your fitness as leader. You can teach him that you are fit, but that requires that you restore his confidence by showing that you are confident and aren't afraid of him or anyone else for that matter.

HOWEVER, unless you can truly get over your fear, and re-train him, he will always have the edge on you. If I were you, I would sell or trade him to someone who is willing to take him down. If he's good breeding stock, they should be able and willing to do it. He will never do it again to that owner.

Retraining means you have to have a lot of moxy. The attitude you have to adopt is, "Ok you cheeky little So and So, HOW DARE YOU! I raised you. I cleaned your little poopy bottom and bottle fed you. I give you raisins. I control the raisins AND the hay. I stuck my hand in your Mama's placenta! You think you are tough enough to challenge me, I'll show you who is the boss! " Then you take him down to the ground and sit on him till he stops struggling and wailing and moaning and acting like a spoiled baby.

(I've done it for other people and it almost always works.) Because I'm female, they get that women are not whimps and they don't mess with women after that. The only time it didn't work was when the owner just couldn't let go of her fear of goats. SHE was the problem, not the goat. She was afraid of ALL her goats.

BTW, that is exactly why RTG wins with her animals. She has that kind of moxy. Her animals know it. Except her lizard. He is just in love with her and has HER wrapped around his little toes.

 

[Bunny-kids]

I know you're right. Fact is, really should do away with him and just get a buckling now. He should be old enough to breed this fall. Funny, since I have 3 bucklings to get rid of, but of course I can't use my own.

And yes, that's exactly what worries me. He knows he "won" now, and that makes him too dangerous. Even if I kept him to breed ... How am I going to safely get the does in and out of his pen. Sigh.

I know that's what I have to do really. I just don't like it.

 

[Bunny-kids]

Lol was typing the other answer....

Really?

Hmmmm. When he was growing up, he challenged me. And yes, I threw hm down. I didn't know I was supposed to sit on him lol. I did it maybe 3 times, and I guess for a long time we had no problems.

I'm not sure I'm physically capable now. He outweighs me and of course is very muscular. And he has his horns.

Am I afraid of him? Honestly now, I know he can hurt me and wants to. If I knew I could prevent being hurt, I'd be willing to do whatever it takes. I am just not sure how I can possibly overpower him. While I'm not terrified of him (and I'm not at all afraid of any of the other animals) I can't help but be wary of his ability to hurt me.

 

[Queen Mum]

As for the horns. Bicycle grips screwed tightly onto those horns will help a LOT. And you can glue them on if you wish.

If you need to, you can put a large dog harness on him before throwing him. And have a friend help you with the process. As long as you are the one on top, that will help. And put a halter on that boy! The harness will help you control his body and the halter will help you control his head. Gives you something to hang on to.

 

[Bunny-kids]

Hmmmm .....

Yes, if having help will still work, I can do it. If he's on the ground, I'm pretty sure I can hold him there. Just might take 2-3 people to GET him there. He respects men, and even boys. I wondered if it was that I'm female.

His horns are too wide for bicycle grips -- Nubian. Wide horns, especially at the base, and curving out. He sharpens them too. At least I guess that's what he's doing. Rubs the trees to death by scraping his horns all along them. I was thinking of putting tennis balls on the ends.

If I put a harness on him, it's going to need to stay on him. That's going to be one stinky harness, LOL. I hadn't even thought of a harness and halter.

Thanks, you've definitely given me something to think about. I would love it if I can get him under control. I really do hate to lose him. I'm torn between his good traits and this attitude of his.

I'm pretty much of a mind not to have animals around that I'd consider dangerous. That's why I don't raise big hogs (that and the fact that with my luck they'd get out and destroy everything). Big boar hogs and angry bulls can intimidate me, LOL. I hadn't expected to be bullied by a buck goat though.

Well, I am glad I waited. I'll see if I can round up some willing help.

Have you fitted bucks with, say, dog harnesses? Horse halters? What do you use?

This should probably be in another thread somewhere, LOL, not under raising babies. Thanks for your help.

 

[Queen Mum]

My boys have really wide horns. They just go on the tips. And I use a dog harness. He isn't sharpening the horns per se. He may be scratching them. Horns "shed" and I think they may itch. (possibly inside) They have a blood supply and they sweat. If you feel them they are warm. Goats cool themselves with their horns. Thus you NEVER want to completely wrap a goats horns. It's why people who use pack goats prefer them with horns.

Male goats also have a gland in their heads so he is leaving his scent on the trees.

 

[Bunny-kids]

So, the doeling is much stronger now. Her legs are still not lined up in a normal fashion though. They are just slightly "out" and forward at the knee joint (front legs) maybe one is slightly more than the other. She got the BoSe at 2 days old, and today was 4 days old, so it's had 2 days to work.

She is strong though, and nurses fine, and gets around. She's not as strong as the bucklings, but they are all twice her size. She does seem to want to sleep just slightly more than the boys and is slightly less interested in playing, but that may just be me worrying about her.

Opinions if I should give her another .1 or .125 cc to bring her to the original .25cc recommendation? I shouldn't be splinting her legs in any way, should I? they don't seem to give her that much trouble, so I'm not inclined to do that. I think it may cause problems rather than fix them. Or have I just not given the BoSe enough time to work? Seems like the last time it took a few days to completely straighten the kid out.

Thanks for any input.

some of the bucklings are munching hay ... not that I think they are swallowing it yet. They sure do grow up fast though!

 

[20kidsonhill]

It just take time for those legs to straighten, I would give her a week for sure, before I reconsidered another bo-se shot. I believe the bottle says can give every 30 days. But you do need to be careful about too much selenium.