A chinchilla colored baby from a red to copper breeding?

[BeltaineRabbitry]

Okay, so a while ago (the babies are now 2 months old lol) I bred a pedigreed copper (these are full sized satins, copper is the chestnut and or castor color) to a pedigreed red. I double checked these guys and they have REW, Red, Copper, and black in their pedigrees 3 generations back. Out of a litter of 6 I got 2 red, 2 copper, and 2 different babies. The first one I thought was a REW, as both parents have REW in their past, however she is not a red eyed white, she is white, but her eyes are brownish blue, and she is starting to develop a darker nose and tail. The other baby is what I would call a chinchilla colored rabbit, not a great one, but definitely a chin. I breed these guys for meat and show, unfortunately I concentrate in red in show and both red babies out of the litter didnt make it. Which left me with two coppers (both of which were sold as meat producers) and these two strange bunnies. I have kept them as they are both does, and really well made, these will obviously go into our meat herd rather than show, and I am very interested to see what I can get out of them with my NZW buck.

My question is, what genes would the parent be caring to produce this odd mixture and any ideas on what the little white one might be. Also what do you think I may get out of a breeding to a REW? I may be able to post pictures of them tomorrow, to show color if needed, just curious as to what these girls might be.

 

[DianeS]

Check out the "himi" gene - the one responsible for the coloring of Himalayans and Californians. If that's the coloring you're looking at in the 'white' kit, it will at least get you pointed in the right direction.

 

[Bunnylady]

Check out the "himi" gene - the one responsible for the coloring of Himalayans and Californians. If that's the coloring you're looking at in the 'white' kit, it will at least get you pointed in the right direction.

Himi's have red eyes, this kit's eyes are not red.

Most people know that white rabbits can have blue or red eyes, but there is also a dark-eyed white that is called an Ermine. The combination that produces it involves Agouti at the A locus, one Chinchilla gene and one REW gene at the C locus, and 2 of the non-extension genes at the E locus. You don't always get all of the dark pigment out of the coat, sometimes there is a little bit of ticking in the coat (particularly on the "points." An animal with just a bit of ticking on an otherwise white coat is often called a Frosted Pearl or simply a Frosty. Because the Chinchilla gene is involved, Frosty eye color can vary from brown to blue-gray or a mottled shade between the two.

When the Chinchilla gene occurs in a rabbit with the self genes, the color may look a bit less intense that full color black self, but you might have to put them next to each other to see the difference. I think it possible that the black rabbit on the pedigree might be a self chin.

If bred to a REW, you most likely will get some REW babies, but you will likely get some light chins. Some New Zealands carry Steel genes, and if that is true of your NZW, the Steel combined with the non-extension will probably give you solid black babies.

 

[BeltaineRabbitry]

Thanks for the information BunnyLady. This sounds exactly like my girl, her eyes are a brownish blue, maybe more blue than brown at this point with the really light points, and after reading your response I went and checked and she does have some very faint ticking through out her coat, mostly the tips of the guard hairs. She still has her baby bunny fur right now, so I am excited about what she may end up looking like after she sheds out. And while I am not really familiar with genetics, I do see how she could get all the necessary parts from both of her parents. I know her mother has a Cc due to her being a copper and she has produced rews before, and the buck was a new guy and this was his only litter that I got from him so I will be sure to pass on the information to his new owners, about the fact that he is carrying the chin gene.

This is one of my favorite things about breeding rabbits, is the random strange colors you can produce (although I would prefer it not to happen in my red line lol) and I really appreciate the info, now I will have to do some more research on her color

Thanks again!