Am I buying healthy goats? How do I know

[samssimonsays]

I had never heard of the G6S until the gal we got put on a waiting list for 2 doelings. She has tested and phased out all carriers of the G6S and has been free of CL, CAE, Johnes and G6S for a while. But since we are getting 2 does from her, most likely related, we would like at least one, hopefully two with different genetics to give us a nice start. I know my oldest two came from a closed (at the time) herd, It is no longer closed, and it had tested negative for CL and CAE. My youngest came from someone who tests yearly and tests Negative for CAE and CL for sure. I plan to test them again come spring time myself to get a system going and familiarize myself with doing it at a set time each year.

 

[samssimonsays]

I should add that I knew both people I got my starters from so I didn't have to worry about anyone not being truthful with me so it never even dawned on me that it could happen until now.

 

[Southern by choice]

If we bring in a goat ( we only go to tested herds) we still quarantine for 30-60 days and during that time we draw blood and send out to test for CAE, CL, and Johnes.

Many do not test for Johnes. This is a very serious issue that is starting to become problematic and will devastate goat herds. Goat breeders really need to start paying attention to this disease. It is rampant in cattle herds

Many also do not test for CL siting "we have no lumps".

There are times a breeder will keep a CAE or CL goat... generally because the genetics are exceptional and they want thoose genetics but some breeders are better at isolating and keeping these diseases from spreading... problem is it usually does end up infecting whole herds.

The reason you want to see the documents is because MISTAKES happen! It is not always a case of someone lying but other issues we have seen first hand with many a people.
The breeder says tested herd... but doesn't get their copy of test results from vet so breeder ASSUMES tests, A, B, C are being done. Then they sell a goat new owner quarantines runs test and the breeder gets a call stating this doe is CAE positive!
Breeder goes frantic... they call their vet.... find out vet was never even testing for CAE.

Or test results for one thing come in -all neg- call to breeder your all neg... but what was missed is the 2nd set of results with POSITIVE on it.

Breeders have an equal responsibility to have a copy of results, review them and know their status, know what's tested for etc.

We have seen vets send out testing but because the vet doesn't believe in a certain test they don't run those- even if the client has requested... this is an issue.

So my point in all this is there are great vets, great breeders- just sometimes not on the same page and sometimes errors occur. So having both parties having a copy and reviewing is the best way to catch a problem if there is one.

 

[samssimonsays]

I have been told the CAE containment line from someone recently. How it is easily controlled so unless they are showing symptoms they are not culled out. I was slightly taken aback by this only because I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing in an animal with it and being so new to the world of Goats.

Pasturella and Coccidiosis is basically all I have to worry about in rabbits but since they are in cages and separate in most cases it isn't a big deal to most. I have had judges tell me similar, that you could take the snot of a sick rabbit and put it in the healthy rabbits nose and the healthy rabbit won't get it... Then why does it spread so fast and easily? I have a feeling it is a similar thing with Goats and these things. One breeder may shrug it off, or even a vet from what you just explained, and another may not.

I am wanting healthy, quality animals to start a herd with... I don't want to play around with the possibility of anyone being or getting sick because of mistakes or otherwise. Sadly, I'm finding not many care that much about this sort of thing around me with the more people I contact or find.

 

[Southern by choice]

I have been told the CAE containment line from someone recently. How it is easily controlled so unless they are showing symptoms they are not culled out. I was slightly taken aback by this only because I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing in an animal with it and being so new to the world of Goats.

I know- the mentality drives me nuts...

Zoonotic diseases are not a big deal???? SMH!

We have been very vocal - sometimes the regional vets love us some not... LOL - we do a lot of work in our region with goats, management , and care. People need to make their own decisions because if they have the info then they can decide what is best. Often they listen to this vet or that vet or this breeder or that... none are substitutes for a person doing their OWN research and deciding for themselves.

When someone has something in their herd they become very dismissive and all say "no big deal"... um I don't think so.

We have heard some crazy stuff- like you cannot tell if a goat has Johnes unless you necropsy it.
All goats will have CL in the end
CAE is fine if they are asymptomatic..

The list is long.

CAE for the most part infects through colostrum but there is a small (some say 3% some studies say as high as 10%) chance of being passed in utero.

I think DonnaBelle had a post about this- just checked- here it is... a good idea of what happened is in this thread.
Think I will go re-read this. Been a while.
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/dont-tell-me-that-cae-is-no-big-deal.24625/

 

[samssimonsays]

I am definately glad I chose to come here, as MY gut screamed no and I have learned to trust that voice inside of my head (sometimes it could be a bad thing lol) so I came here to double check as the person I had been talking with dismissed it like it was nothing. I am the same way with rabbits though. But with them... It is more physical, bad teeth, bad type bad temperament and so on I will not breed into my herd. I want to hold the same standard for goats. Not just be raising them to raise but raising quality animals and bettering the breed and milking ability. I have been finding that a lot of the show stock in Nubians just don't have the volume of Milk that they should around here and That is so sad to me.

Thank you again for all the info! It really reassured me that my gut was right again.

 

[samssimonsays]

I know- the mentality drives me nuts...

Zoonotic diseases are not a big deal???? SMH!

We have been very vocal - sometimes the regional vets love us some not... LOL - we do a lot of work in our region with goats, management , and care. People need to make their own decisions because if they have the info then they can decide what is best. Often they listen to this vet or that vet or this breeder or that... none are substitutes for a person doing their OWN research and deciding for themselves.

When someone has something in their herd they become very dismissive and all say "no big deal"... um I don't think so.

We have heard some crazy stuff- like you cannot tell if a goat has Johnes unless you necropsy it.
All goats will have CL in the end
CAE is fine if they are asymptomatic..

The list is long.

CAE for the most part infects through colostrum but there is a small (some say 3% some studies say as high as 10%) chance of being passed in utero.

I think DonnaBelle had a post about this- just checked- here it is... a good idea of what happened is in this thread.
Think I will go re-read this. Been a while.
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/dont-tell-me-that-cae-is-no-big-deal.24625/

Wow... I am absolutely exhausted from ready that post and all the links and back and forth in it. There is so, so much on the matter. I feel absolutely heartbroken for DonnaBelle for having to go through all of that with her animals. I am going to be researching people a lot more now. Definitely won't be buying unless I know for certain now.

 

[Devonviolet]

I'm so glad I haven't bought any dairy goats yet! Up until recently I wasn't aware of the need for excellent testing & documentation when buying a goat. Southern has helped me a lot, with disease awareness & importance of testing & documentation.

As far as microscopes go. I have been told it doesn't need to be expensive or have lots of features. That doesn't really help, though, because there are lots of options & price ranges out there. I did a lot of research & then added what I know from my nursing experience, and ended up buying this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005APM5C6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

I also bought disposable slides, a variety of beaker sizes, 16X150mm test tube& disposable plastic pipettes.

How to test fecal samples on goats:

http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/fecals.html
http://www.goatbiology.com/fecal.html
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/worms/course2.shtml


Blood testing:
I'm also going to try my hand with drawing blood and sending out blood for testing. I have a bit of an advantage over most, because of my nursing experience drawing blood & starting IVs. But with the articles & videos online, I wouldn't think it would be too hard to learn. One video I saw, a 10 year old child did it (with help of course).

Of course, since I haven't done it yet, I can't verify how good they are. But here is link for a lab that processes the labs once you've drawn the blood:
http://www.dhlaboratory.com/goats

How to draw blood from a goat:
http://www.boergoatshome.com/Blood_testing.php

 

[samssimonsays]

This is awesome info! Thanks! It is funny because I can not handle getting shots or blood drawn but have no issues watching or doing it myself.... On others of course lol.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I'm so glad I haven't bought any dairy goats yet! /QUOTE]


I thought you had goats