Anatolian Shepard problems

[Southern by choice]

I am in NC. You don't have to give exact location but maybe county. If close enough I can assess her.

 

[LaughterFarms]

I am in mcdowell... it is between hickory and Asheville

 

[Southern by choice]

darn, I'm pretty far from you. Was hoping you'd be close and I could at least get you started with real hands on teaching.

 

[LaughterFarms]

I told my husband we were going to have to find a good trainer near us.

 

[Southern by choice]

These dogs are not hard, but it requires you and him to work with her.
They are dogs that require respect, and praise training is the only way to train them. They are not food motivated so don't bother.
Praise and correction.

 

[DesertDawn]

Yeah, Southern by Choice has you pointed in the right direction. She should not be left alone with poultry until she proves herself reliable and often that's around 2 years old. LGD's are traditionally used as protection dogs for hoof stock. In their native lands, they do hunt small animals so they need to be trained to protect them. Some are reliable earlier but since she left her parents at 6 weeks instead of 12, which is the recommended time frame for a LGD, you're going to have to do a lot of training and these dogs are not your typical dog. These dogs are independent thinkers with a low prey drive but Anatolians can have a sharp temperament. Right now he's a puppy and you need to correct playing. Playing/chasing must be forbidden. I highly recommend you get the book, "Livestock Protection Dogs Selection, Care, and Training" by Orysia Dawydiak & David Sims. Obedience is good but when they get older, they know best so you really need to work on mutual respect. These are serious dogs that should not be taken lightly. Educate yourself.

 

[goatgurl]

I agree that Southern has you headed in the right direction. I have had Anatolians over the years, in fact the first pair that I got as pups had a chicken thing. first they love the squeaky toy thing and then they find out that they are pretty tasty too. the female was the worst of the two. I worked with her on leash and off until she understood that the chickens were mine and she couldn't bother them. it will take work on your part and age and maturity on her part but she will get there. I've seen so many good LGD's rehomed over the years because of chicken/poultry issues, just don't give up and one day the light will come on and she will get it. I have heard of people doing things like tying the chicken around their neck but I for one have never done it. my dogs are friendly and love affection and I couldn't get past the rotting chicken to pet them. patience, perseverance, and respect go a long way with these dogs. good luck, she will be worth the trouble in the end.

 

[Ridgetop]

I agree with Southern that the breeder is very much to blame for several reasons: First, for selling a 6 week old puppy of any breed but worse a LGD breed; second for selling an Anatolian LGD to a buyer who "just wanted her" without making sure that the puppy would be going to a home with the appropriate livestock and training; third, for selling an Anatolian LGD to a family with no LGD experience and not training the family to train the dog. How could the breeder assess the puppy to know if it was right for the family at 6 weeks? Fitting the right pup to the right family is what makes a great guardian dog.

Anatolians are harder than other LGD breeds. They are not very good with poultry because they prefer small stock - goats and sheep. They can be rough with small children as puppies because of their size and need to be trained to be gentle. How did you train your other dogs? If you can't train this dog yourself you need to find a trainer quickly before the dog is ruined or someone is hurt. You need a trainer that understands Anatolians, since these dogs do not react to correction the way other breeds do. Also, your dog needs to be socialized with your family. We invite our Anatolians in at night for several hours with the family after locking up the sheep. They enjoy being inside with us for a few hours every night.

What kind of fencing do you have? A big red flag for me is that you say the dog roams the neighboring cattle farm as well as your property. The LGD should be aware of her boundaries, both property and with regard to her place in the family pack. If the dog is roaming free, she will get into trouble and since she is already a year old, if a neighbor tries to protect his chickens she will certainly not respect him since she apparently has not been taught respect for her own owners. This could lead to a dangerous situation for both the dog and people. Training is the key.

Back to the chicken killing: I have also used the tie the dead chicken around the dog's neck for a week or two approach (only had 2 different dogs kill chickens and this broke them quickly). It works, not just because the smell bothers the dog, but I believe because with the nasty rotting chicken around the dog the owner and family shuns the dog while he is wearing the chicken! I think that having your loving owner avoid any contact with you hurts the dog as much as the stink.

I hope you can find a trainer.

 

[BrendaMNgri]

My opinion: This is not a dog problem. This is not an Anatolian Shepherd problem. It is a breeder/owner problem. Period.
Dead chickens around the neck? I would have thought by now this group had evolved past that.

From 2015 Backyard Poultry Magazine. Then an article from Countryside Magazine. Read both of them, please, OP.....



Buckeye Enthusiast Keeps Heritage Hens Safe

With Livestock Guardian Dogs


By


Brenda M. Negri with Barbara Judd



Copyright 2015 Backyard Poultry Magazine



You can hear the dedication and sound reasoning in Washington farmer and heritage Buckeye breeder Barbara Judd’s voice when she says why she uses Livestock Guardian Dogs to keep her rare breed of poultry safe from depredation:



“Buckeyes were once in the Critical Category established by the Livestock Conservancy. Thanks to their Buckeye Recovery Project, the breed moved from the Critical to Threatened category on the Conservation Priority List. I am committed to always protecting all my charges, and the fact that this chicken breed is still considered “threatened” gives the importance of their protection even heavier weight. I decided the best protection I could give them would be Livestock Guardian Dogs.”



Using Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGDs) to keep sheep, cattle, goats, alpacas, and other mammalians safe from harm is an age-old practice, although relatively (approximately 30 years) new in North America. Some of the more common LGD breeds in use are the ever popular Great Pyrenees, Akbash, Maremma, Kuvasz and Anatolian Shepherd. Rarer breeds such as the Spanish Mastiff, Pyrenean Mastiff and Karakachan are increasing in popularity and use. Putting LGDs to work to guard poultry, ducks, turkeys, geese and guinea fowl is more of a recent movement in line with the increased number of hobby farms, small family ranches and homesteaders. It’s a commitment of time, patience, and more patience, but LGDs can be successfully trained to guard poultry, and many have come to depend on their dogs to keep their flocks safe from depredation.



Barbara Judd agreed to share her story as to how she came to raising Buckeyes on her Washington farm, eventually choosing two sibling LGD pups and two adult siblings from my ranch and kennel operation in Northern Nevada.



“I had decided I wanted to breed Buckeyes. I had fallen in love with their personality, and their story is intriguing as well,” says Judd. “Buckeyes are a notably personable breed, very active and noted for being especially vigilant in the pursuit of mice. They also are very friendly with people and lack the tendency to feather-pick ach other. The males emit a full range of sounds beyond those typical of many other chicken breeds, including a dinosaur-like roar!”



Judd subsequently got on a wait list for chicks from Laura Haggarty and Pathfinders Farm in Kentucky, and received her hatchlings in spring of 2014. Recently Judd moved to a 55 acre farm she calls Froghaven near Salkum, about an hour north of Portland. Here she plans to increase her Buckeye flock. “My goal is to become the go-to person for Buckeye chicks and pullets in Western Washington. I love this breed; they are a great dual-purpose chicken for homesteads and fit in well with a back-to-the-farm sentiment.” Barbara further adds, “The cocks can grow to 8 or 9 pounds and are good meat birds. While as layers they are not quite as productive as a White Leghorn, for example, I understand them to live and produce for a longer period of time than the breeds that were developed for their egg-laying ability alone.”



Barbara’s new farm has a host of predators and wildlife, as did her previous one. She admits to not having given much thought to predators at first, but one day commented to a friend, “If I lose a bird to a predator, it will be that one”, pointing out one of the gold sex-links she had. Less than a week later, she discovered a pile of gold feathers, not 20 feet from her house, in the afternoon. Her dire prediction had come true. She immediately began researching how to keep her chickens safe. “My chickens were not raised to be coyote food,” she quips.



Judd read about Livestock Guardian Dogs, “But I was extremely put off by the prevalent and popular descriptions of hands-off training and minimal human interaction. Any dog I own is a part of my family, and I felt the hands-off, do-not-touch descriptions I read just didn’t make sense for us.”



Later that summer she lost another hen to a coyote. Now, she was determined, as well as furious, and bound to find a solution. Judd spent the evening researching LGDs on the Internet.



She continues: “This time, as I looked I discovered another perspective to owning LGDs, living with them and training them, one I had not run across before. I found Brenda Negri’s website for her Cinco Deseos Ranch in Nevada where she’d been raising LGDs since 2009. On her site were several articles she’d authored wherein she expounded at great length about socializing LGDs with people, about LGDs being part of the family, a component of a team, not just a disposable tool or something to be kept at a distance. She reared litters in a huge pack of working LGDs and spoke of how they were mentored and shepherded along by her older, seasoned dogs, and spoke of the continuity and consistency this produced in working pups. Her website was full of information on having LGDs as part of a small farm, small acreage, as well as the rare Spanish breeds she specialized in, being more suitable for this type of duty.”



As it happened, I had a litter of LGD pups on the ground at the time, sired by my trusted old Great Pyrenees, Peso, and a rare Italian import Pyrenean Mastiff female, Atena. Barbara sent me a puppy application, “The stars aligned,” she chuckles, and the Judds became proud new owners of Lucy and Patty, nick named “The Pockets” as they were the two smallest pups in the huge (16 puppies) litter. As if predestined, they also hung out together and were inseparable. Barbara took the pair home at about ten weeks, and LGD Chicken Guarding 101 began!



Patty and Lucy’s litter had already been exposed to my own mixed flock of 40 Cochin, Brahman and Polish layers, with daily visits into the coop and chicken yard. Barbara wisely took my advice, and bought two siblings who roughhoused with one another and wore each other out playing instead of taking out their young energy on livestock and fowl. The pups had also been exposed to neighbor children, cattle and sheep and were showing great promise as guardians.



“Which brings up another point,” Judd adds. “The importance of selecting a knowledgeable and reputable LGD breeder. I had always had rescues as pets….these dogs were to be working dogs, not pets. They were to be socialized and part of the family but I needed them to be LGDs – guaranteed – not maybes. I needed to be certain, and not risk they’d turn out to be chicken killers instead of protectors. So I bought LGDs from a reputable breeder, who had both parents, who were working parents, descended from working lines. And she had references, and many, many clients who came back time and again to buy dogs only from her. That was how reliable and trustworthy her dogs were. Actually, the price I paid was not significantly more than which the rescue organizations ask, and in the large scheme of things is an insignificant cost when you consider the lifetime cost of caring for a pet – or as I’ve heard in poultry circles, ‘It costs the same to feed a breeder’s chick as it does a feed store chick.’”



Once settled in at the new home, Patty and Lucy’s training continued with older, calm hens who were less flighty and thus, less inclined to tempt the pups into chasing. Judd made the training time a “treat time” by positive reinforcement. Each pup received a treat before each short, 10-15 minute “class”. Soon, they were reminding her it was time for “school”.



“I knew this process would take weeks, if not months,” Judd adds. She kept the chickens and pups in a small, very manageable area, and sat with them. No distractions were allowed: no pet dogs, no children. “We spent time just hanging out with the chickens, and always ended on a positive note before they got tired.” As time progressed, “The Pockets” became calm and confident around the fowl, remaining alert and interested, but no inappropriate behavior. Judd increased the time the pups were with the flock gradually.



“I came at training the pups in a slow and systematic, careful manner. I learned from Brenda, from previous dog trainers and read the books by noted dog behaviorist, Turid Rugaas that Brenda insisted I read. The pups became part of the daily chicken routine. As puppies, they needed protection too as they were far too young to fend for themselves, so they were never left alone overnight, for example.”



Judd was also learning about unique LGD behavior, which is markedly different than non-LGD breeds. “I can say they are nothing like other dogs I have had. They won’t fetch, they don’t play tug o’ war. They DO seem to notice every detail around them.”



Judd’ observations are accurate. LGD breeds guard on ingrained instinct, not so much training, although the owner will enable, foster and encourage that guarding instinct with positive reinforcement and gentle reprimands when a pup makes a mistake. Tying a dead chicken around a pup’s neck is an oft-quoted “solution” for problems but only encourages confusion and distrust in the pup and shouldn’t be done. There are no short cuts to doing “Chicken 101” with LGD pups, and the owner has to commit to the time and patience it takes.



One night, Judd woke to one of the pups barking at a bookcase. “I had moved a large photo onto that bookcase, and Lucy noticed – something’s not where it belongs!”



A more telling incident happened a week or so after Barbara brought The Pockets home:



“We’d spent a lot of time around the chickens, in their run or out foraging. One early evening we walked by the run and no chickens were in sight. Patty was immediately stressed! She sat down, whining at the run. The chickens had simply put themselves in the coop for the night, so when the hens poked their heads back out to see what the commotion was about, Patty relaxed and was immediately satisfied.” Judd continues, “You could see the wheels turning in Patty’s head – ‘Oh that’s where they are. OK, everything is fine now!’ I was amazed and impressed. These were certainly the right dogs to protect my chickens.”



From the time I began raising and using LGDs, I have always understood the importance of running these dogs in the right numbers – just as they are in Spain and other countries where the pastoral life is still alive and very much a fabric of their society. I’ve continually lectured my clients about the advantages of running enough LGDs to properly cover the acreage, terrain, predator load and stock they have.



Dogs, like humans, must sleep and rest too, and one LGD cannot last long if it is expected to carry the load of three or four dogs. In addition, should one dog become ill or injured, by removing him from duty, an operator’s flock or herd becomes immediately more vulnerable to attack. Where predators can easily take down one LGD, a pack of three or four dogs will present a much more serious deterrent to threats. On my ranch, my several dogs work in “shifts”, so there is always coverage, 24/7. Some dogs may do a “perimeter patrol” farther out at the edge of my 5 acres while the others stay closer to the flock, barns, and my house. Although my closest neighbors continually lose goats, sheep, horses, calves, pet cats and chickens to packs of coyotes, feral dogs, mountain lions and birds of prey, I have never suffered a single loss here.



Barbara Judd was a willing and capable pupil and took my advice about “enough dogs” to heart. A few short weeks after the move to the larger farm, Barbara brought in two young adult Spanish Mastiffs I had bred who had to be rehomed due the owner’s relocation. Agostin and Argenta were from my first purebred Spanish Mastiff litter, who had been guarding horses and chickens in Montana. When she got wind of the pair being up for rehoming, and their proven experience as fowl guardians, Judd seized the opportunity to add two “chicken broke”, mature guardians, dubbed “The A Team”, to her larger acreage with its more serious predator load.



“My plan is to eventually add a small herd of goats to forage the brush and weeds, and perhaps a heritage breed of wool sheep,” Judd says. “I knew with the larger farm acreage and more livestock, that I needed more protection than just two dogs, and the sibling pair Agostin and Argenta fit the bill to a “T”.”



As introductions currently progress at Froghaven Farm, “The A Team” is getting to know “The Pockets” and all is going well. The Judds will keep their heritage flock of Buckeyes safe and sound from depredation with four very devoted Livestock Guardian Dogs. “Since we brought Lucy and Patty we have never lost a single bird,” Judd says, and with the addition of two more dogs, they won’t be losing anything in the future, either.



Sidebar/Bullet Points




· Buy pups who are only purebred or crosses of purebred, recognized LGD breeds. LGD breeds crossed on non-LGD breeds are unpredictable and high risk.

· Buy from established breeders who will give references, customer support and have a proven track record of producing good guardian dogs.

· You get what you pay for. Quality LGD pups typically start at $500 and go up from there. Quality going adults can cost $1,000 on up.

· Never bring a pup home younger than 8 weeks of age and make sure all puppy vaccinations are complete, as well as several de-wormings.

· If possible buy pups that have been started on and exposed to poultry and fowl. Make sure they have been regularly handled and socialized with people and are not skittish or frightened when approached.

· Make sure your fencing is puppy escape-proof and secure.

· Remember that rearing LGDs to guard poultry is a labor-intensive endeavor with no magical short cuts. Patience, time and persistence are key to success.

· LGD pups take up to two years or more to fully mature. Don’t expect adult work from an immature dog.





Recommended reading and related Internet links:


The Livestock Conservancy: http://livestockconservancy.org



American Buckeye Poultry Club: http://www.americanbuckeyepoultryclub.com



Protect Your Poultry With Livestock Guardian Dogs, by Brenda M. Negri, Nov/Dec 2015 issue of Countryside Magazine



Sibling Success! Advantages of Littermate Guardian Dogs, by Brenda M. Negri, Sept/Oct 2015 issue of sheep! Magazine


On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals, by Turid Rugaas, Copyright 2006 by Dogwise Publishing


///////

2015 Countryside Magazine article:

Protect Your Poultry

With Livestock Guardian Dogs

by

Brenda M. Negri

Copyright 2015





Free-ranging poultry is all the rage these days as cage-free eggs from “happier, healthier hens” bring premium market value, and undisputed health benefits for the consumer. With this freedom however, comes risk: free-ranging fowl is a predator magnet, often drawing in foxes, raccoons, feral dog packs, coyotes, birds of prey, and in some areas even mountain lion, bear and wolves. Many of these predators have a beneficial place in our ecosystem and are “here to stay”. So what is the homesteader to do when they are attracted to your flock for their next meal?


Enter the Livestock Guardian Dog, or as they are commonly referred to as, LGDs. These breeds from the Old Country are highly coveted for their instinct to guard livestock from depredation. Breeds such as the Great Pyrenees, Kuvasz, Maremma, Pyrenean Mastiff, Anatolian, Spanish Mastiff, Polish Tatra and others, have for centuries protected sheep, cattle, horses, swine and goats in their native countries of Spain, Poland, Italy, France and Turkey. Now a regular sight on many family farms, with proper selection, care and training, LGDs can also keep prized hens, guineas, turkeys and other fowl safe from predators.


Washington State hobby farmer and heritage Buckeye chicken producer Barbara Judd was a first time LGD prospective buyer and owner when she contacted me at my Cinco Deseos Ranch LGDs in Nevada, querying about the availability of pups. My Italian import Pyrenean Mastiff female Atena had just produced a whopping 16 puppy litter out of my Great Pyrenees male, Peso. In this colorful batch of pups were two small females I affectionately dubbed “the Pockets” whom Barbara immediately fell in love with and named Lucy and Patty. When she explained to me what her goal was – rearing these pups to protect chickens – I cautioned her, as fowl is typically the most difficult to train LGDs on. Clucking and flapping and fussing hens present a temptation few pups can resist chasing! But luckily for Barbara, I’d started introducing this litter to my flock of 40 layers and roosters, so the prospect of her plan, although a challenge, was one I was up to and excited to see how the pups would fare.


The eventual outcome, neither of us saw coming. Once Barbara took home her pups at about 10 weeks of age, she continued Patty and Lucy’s training. She fine-tuned and in all honesty surpassed me in Chicken Guarding 101 for those pups. What made it so incredible was the fact that she was a first time LGD owner with zero exposure to LGDs – breeds who are entirely different than pet breeds in their make up, instincts and behaviors. She became a beacon of hope and a shining example of what a person can accomplish if they follow some basic rules. I tapped into her expertise to share with readers, and following are some key points to follow and remember.


~~~~~~


Buy healthy, vaccinated and de-wormed LGD pups from proven, working parents. Make sure parents are both recognized LGD breeds; crosses with non-LGD breeds are high risk and unpredictable.


Breeder track record and credibility are important for future support and advice. You want pups with early exposure to fowl before you take them home at 10 weeks or older.


Count on this process to take several weeks, into months.


Plan on daily “Chicken 101” training for your pups. Make it a “reward” time with positive reinforcement – Judd typically gave her pups a treat before every “class”, and soon, they were reminding her it was time for school.


Get the pups tired out with activity such as a perimeter walk of your barnyard or active play before you engage them in training. This takes the “edge” off a rambunctious pup.


Use older, less flighty hens for training. Keep chickens and pups in a small area while you sit with them.


Aim for the pups to ignore the chickens. If you catch them staring at chickens, turn their heads or put your hand briefly over their eyes.


Discipline any inappropriate behavior from the start with a consistent noise you make to show dissatisfaction. Don’t tie a dead chicken around a pup’s neck as punishment: this is confusing to the pup and does not discourage or accomplish anything.


Make the chicken area a calm, quiet area. This means no yapping pet dogs, no screaming toddlers during training time. Keep distractions to a minimum.


Positive reinforce their good behavior by giving them big soup bones to chew on while they lay quietly in the coop area with their charges.


Do not force the class for a given period of time. 10-15 minute classes are best.


End on a positive note. If the pups appear to be getting tired, irritated or annoyed, END the session BEFORE anything “awful” happens.


Don’t let misbehavior discourage you. Mistakes are part of the process.


Expect these to be somewhat intense but short training sessions where you are right there, not yards away. This is YOU participating, hands on. Take a chair, sit down, observe, correct, praise.


As the pups progress you will be able to extend the time they are inside with the chickens. But do so slowly. If you have a day of setbacks, give them the rest of the day off, and start fresh in the morning.


Weather changes can affect pups’ activity: if it’s been hot and suddenly turns cold, they may be more rambunctious. Keep that in mind when you train.


If you have pet dogs regularly harassing your fowl, don’t let them mingle with your LGDs as they’ll impart bad habits. Keep the pet dogs away from the fowl at all times.


With consistency and patience, Barbara Judd has helped Patty and Lucy reach an impressive level of success as solid chicken guardians. They now keep predators from her precious flock and she has never lost any fowl since bringing in her “dynamic duo”.

 

[Southern by choice]

Dead chickens around the neck? I would have thought by now this group had evolved past that.

This group knows that is not the right way nor does it work.
However, there are many contributors on the forum that will share... doesn't mean it is supported.

IMO before poultry or anything else the dog needs interaction with the family. The trainer isn't for the dog. It is for the humans. But I know you already know that.