Anemic Herd

Socrates-n-Crew

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Hello all!

I have a 3 year old Boer doe, 2 4 year old Spanish Wethers, a 4 year old Kiko Doe, three 9 month old Boki doelings and a 9 month old Boer wether.

The two Boki doelings are fine, scoring at the top level ( a 1 )on Famancha, and their fecals are clean.
The three wethers, and the boer doe are consisitently scoring at a 3 on Famancha.
The Kiko doe is consistently scoring a 4, and the boer doeling is a 5 (!!!!).

I've never had a worm problem with my herd until this summer, and it came on sudden. I had another boer doe that stayed at a famancha of 3, dipped down to a 1 and died.

I have had several McMasters surveys done and each one reveals a high load of Barberpole, and more recently coccidia is starting to elevate. The Boer doeling and the Kiko exhibits signs with occasional scouring and poor appetite. The Kiko is severely underweight, and is consistently eating only half her normal ration. These are the only two that are symptomatic. The boer doeling is now stunted, and half the size of the other babies.

This has been going on all summer.

I have wormed with everything at this point, ivermectin, valbazen, strongid horse paste, cydectin pour on, and cydectin sheep drench. Each wormer was done 2-3 times, ten days between. The fecals after each worming show lower numbers, but not enough to fix the problem, and the numbers are back up by the time it is ok to worm again.

The vets feel that the coccidia is due to the enormous stress on my herd right now, and is being treated with Dimeth monthly at 1cc per 10 lbs.

I am treating anemic animals with redcell daily.

They are fed a mixture of granulated goat pellets (17%). The does are getting some dairy feed mixed in as well. They have fresh water at all time, and water troughs are cleaned regularly. The barn is thoroughly cleaned weekly, as are feed troughs. Pastures are large, and well maintained, and we have been rotating, though at this point I doubt there is a "clean" pasture left.

I lost my doe doe about a month ago, she went quickly. However, with no real signs of improvement, I think that all the effort put in by my vets and I are doing nothing more than keeping the two sick ones alive instead of fixing the problems. All three of the vets that I have been consulting have now told me that they dont really know what else to try.

This is not just weak genes, these goats were all fine with no problems with worms until this summer. The boer doeling is a cull, but the Kiko doe, Lily, is not a cull animal. I see her going downhill again, she is very special to me, I dont want to bury her!

I am hoping that someone in here can offer some sort of suggestion on what else I can try. I tried to be thorough, but if you need more information, please ask.
 

Southern by choice

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First I would like to welcome you to BYH! :frow

Sound like you are covering everything.

Are they sure these are Barberpole? Flukes (certain kinds of flukes) under a scope will look identical except for size.
What is the land like? How much rain did you get? Has it been pretty wet consistently? How tall is the forage?

Pour ons should never be used in goats according to researchers with the ACSRPC . http://www.acsrpc.org/
What kind of doasge is being used?
I ask because if you ask 3 different vets more than likely you will get 3 different protocols.;)

Where do you put them when de-worming?

What kind, if any testing have you done with your herd?
CAE? Johhnes? CL?

Be careful with redcell as iron deficiency is bad but iron toxicity can be deadly too.
 

Socrates-n-Crew

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Pretty sure they are barberpole, but with the worming that we have done, flukes should have been hit as well. All three vets agree'd that it was barberpole, as well as my not as experienced eye.

Land.......about 2 acres per goat, 50/50 grass and wooded forage. Forage is heavily wooded, knee high is about the lowest point, grass is about 7 inches (although we just clipped it pretty short to dry it out more)

Wet......yes, it's been very wet, lots of rain. Prime worm conditions.

Pour ons.......I agree but desparate times call for desparate measures.

Doseage varies on the wormer that I used. Cant recall off my head what was used for each wormer (in my herd book at the barn) , but they were correct according to the vets and the local ag extension and my research online. My vets do have some different protocols, not drastically different, but enough to give me options.

When worming, I dry lot them for 4-5 days afterwards.

We dont do testing, except for fecals.
 

Socrates-n-Crew

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Thank you. lol, that is the chart that I have, and used for dosing. I did worm a little heavy with the sheep drench.
 

Socrates-n-Crew

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Should I move this to another place in order to get more ideas?
 

goatboy1973

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Pretty sure they are barberpole, but with the worming that we have done, flukes should have been hit as well. All three vets agree'd that it was barberpole, as well as my not as experienced eye.

Land.......about 2 acres per goat, 50/50 grass and wooded forage. Forage is heavily wooded, knee high is about the lowest point, grass is about 7 inches (although we just clipped it pretty short to dry it out more)

Wet......yes, it's been very wet, lots of rain. Prime worm conditions.

Pour ons.......I agree but desparate times call for desparate measures.

Doseage varies on the wormer that I used. Cant recall off my head what was used for each wormer (in my herd book at the barn) , but they were correct according to the vets and the local ag extension and my research online. My vets do have some different protocols, not drastically different, but enough to give me options.

When worming, I dry lot them for 4-5 days afterwards.

We dont do testing, except for fecals.
You might want to dry lot them for 2-3 weeks after deworming next time you deworm them. You also might try confining them for 24h prior to deworming with no food, just good clean water (this is for any oral drenches only). You might also try the above technique and deworm with a pelleted dewormer like Morantel tartrate. Also look at how your dewormers are stored. Each dewormer has a temperature range to insure that it will remain at its optimal strength. Also check the expiration dates to make sure that you are getting the maximum effectiveness out of your dewormers. Good luck on ridding your herd of these deadly parasites.
:fl
 

Southern by choice

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You may want to consider copper levels.
If they are deficient you will see heavier worm loads.
Some regions are high in copper some low.
If your region is low then more often than not loose minerals won't be enough.
I am in a region that is high but I have off the charts high iron in our water, that causes a binding effect on the copper. So I need to give copper on occasion.

Lespadeza and pine bark are high in tannin these are very good for worm reduction.

The only other thing I can think of is that there may be an immune issue going on with the two.

I would test for CAE and CL.

Check your county data for copper here...
http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/countydata.htm
 

Socrates-n-Crew

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They are not due for another copper bolus for 2 more months. Could I go ahead and give it to them this early?

Dry lot for 2 weeks. I can do that.
Skip feed for a day before worming. I can do that. Gonna be alot of drama in the barn, but I can do that.

Not being smart here, but what does CAE and CL have to do with worm loads?
 
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