Another doe with scours...already lost one.

[cmjust0]

Doe's not only up now, but walking around the kitchen investigating things.. Wife said she squatted and pee'd once, then pooped. That probably sounds silly, but when these guys are bad with whatever it is they have, just letting go enough to pee usually turns loose a torrent of dirty. So, even though it was still watery poo, the fact that she could hold it through a pee was, to us, something of an improvement.

She's apparently gotten that tiny cud up and down a bunch now...might be looking to eat a bit soon, hopefully. Nosed around at some hay, but declined. She's always been picky, though.

Wife actually left the room for a few minutes and the doe yelled at her to come back.. She's normally precocious like that, so that's good.. Wife was outside a door with a window to where she could see the doe, so the doe jumped up and put her front feet on the door for a better look.

We refuse to get complacent, but we're encouraged. I've knocked on a lot of wood today, put it that way.

 

[lilhill]

Celebrate every little step!

Oh, and tell your wife we think she's pretty awesome, too.

 

[trestlecreek]

Well, injectable anti-biotic are good for some things, but often, enough of the drug is not given to work where it really needs too.

Doesn't scour-halt have streptomycin? Not sure I would mix that with a sulfa or the naxel....

Di-meth, sulmet, albon or corrid are not that great IMO for any GI problems. They are -static drugs, they inbit,...they don't actually kill the bacteria, so this means the animals is slow to recover...it recovers due to it's own immunity fighting the problem....

The only use I have for any is with the Di-meth powder to keep pneumonia at bay where an outbreak is likely...

Anyways, I continue the SMZ-TMP 3- 5 days after complete remission.

 

[cmjust0]

Celebrate every little step!

Oh, and tell your wife we think she's pretty awesome, too.

I just missed a call from her by like four minutes, and now she won't answer!

Answering machine doesn't pick up, though, which means she's either A) on the phone, or B) on the intarwebs.. Probably the phone..

If she's on the phone and it's not with me, everything's probably OK..

I hope.

And, yeah, I will tell her that she's awesome for ya! I've told her that she's awesome for me several times already today.

 

[mully]

Along with the electrolytes I would give a high energy drench like Nutri Drench as all the amino acids are absorbed into the body in about 10 min plus it a high carb that will not hurt her rumen. I am so sorry you faced with this and my heart goes out to you. God Bless

 

[cmjust0]

Well, injectable anti-biotic are good for some things, but often, enough of the drug is not given to work where it really needs too.

I think you're right, personally...either not enough, or not fast enough to keep them from dying before the treatment can begin to work.

Doesn't scour-halt have streptomycin? Not sure I would mix that with a sulfa or the naxel....

It's spectinomycin, which is apparently derived from Streptomyces spectabilis.. Or, at least that's what wikipedia tells me.



It's been 13 hours since the doe last had spectinomycin, and it'll be a minimum of 2-3 more hours before I can even get the SMZ-TMP home.. If she's still as OK as my wife's describing her to be when I get home, I might wait some more..

Two questions:

1 -- what's your reasoning behind not mixing a streptomycin-derivative (spectinomycin) with a sulfa or cephalosporin?

2 -- what do you think is a good withdrawal on the spectinomycin before trying the SMZ-TMP?

I mean, if this doe continues to improve and eat and drink on Naxcel alone, I'll probably just leave it at that...maybe continuing the Naxcel for 5 days, instead of three.. If not, well...the wether got sulfa + spectinomycin + naxcel, and he lived -- naxcel in the morning, di-methox in the late afternoon, and Scour-Halt at about 10pm..

Then again, I just said myself that he's a big strong fleshy hybrid with an insatiable appetite. And when I say "appetite," what I mean is an absolute lust for food. Could totally be apples to oranges..

Di-meth, sulmet, albon or corrid are not that great IMO for any GI problems. They are -static drugs, they inbit,...they don't actually kill the bacteria, so this means the animals is slow to recover...it recovers due to it's own immunity fighting the problem....

The only use I have for any is with the Di-meth powder to keep pneumonia at bay where an outbreak is likely...

Well, I had an idea that sulmet and corrid were sorta sucky, but I thought di-methox was pretty decent as sulfas go.. Common wisdom in these parts is to try a sulfa (usually sulmet) before anything 'harder' when a goat has persistent non-dietary scour.. If that doesn't work "oh, in a day or two" then you move on to something more potent..

Thing is...this organism -- whatever it is -- kills in a day if you don't do something to at least slow down the scour.. You just can't keep up with oral electrolytes unless you slow it down.. Di-methox slowed it down in a big fleshy hybrid with lots of strength and plenty of reserves, but young-ish purebred nubian does..? Not so much reserve..

Anyways, I continue the SMZ-TMP 3- 5 days after complete remission.

Cool, thanks!

 

[cmjust0]

Along with the electrolytes I would give a high energy drench like Nutri Drench as all the amino acids are absorbed into the body in about 10 min plus it a high carb that will not hurt her rumen. I am so sorry you faced with this and my heart goes out to you. God Bless

I'M ALL OUT!

Last I checked, TSC was out too, but I might be able to swing by there on my way home to check...maybe.

Jeffers or Valley Vet should have a fully-stocked outpost open 24/7 in every major city. Just my opinion, of course, but..

 

[ksalvagno]

What about rumen juice from a donor cow or goat? We do that with alpacas. Works like a charm to keep the rumen going.

I have Ohio State University to get the rumen juice, not sure where you could get some if you aren't near there.

 

[cmjust0]

Talked to the wifers again.. The little doe is still up and about, sniffing around on everything, and yells if my wife leaves the room for 2 seconds..

She ate, you guys.. She actually ate some hay.

After she ate the hay, she drank actual water...like, on her own, and LOTS of it.. Double

My wife had taken two of the kitchen chairs, pushed them together, then set the hay basket (woven wicker -- only the finest will do) and some fresh warm water up on the seats and up off the floor, at a level where the doe would be most famliar with seeing it..

Clever gal, that wife of mine..

Seeing the activity, the doe got interested in what was going on.. She came over to investigate and ended up eating and drinking!!

She's apparently been burping up cuds like they're going out of style, too...the goat, that is...not the wife.

Still -- NO COMPLACENCY.. Encouraged, yes...complacent, NO.

We're more than aware she could still flop over dead at any moment, so we remain vigilant.

 

[trestlecreek]

I would keep up with what you are doing for today, it appears to be working, so no need to change things!
I would have to look up the answers to the drug questions you have just to make sure I have the right info(top of my head is not always perfect, so I do double check this stuff), which is usually not a problem, but I have a wether whom just had a Urethrostomy and is not doing so well, so I have to run back out to help him.
Just quick, half-time for the scour-halt is probably around 12-24 hours, but here, I would have to look that up, so don't quote me on that,..LOL.
-Most antibiotics DO negate each other when used together. There are very few(off the top of my head again) that can be used together.
Gentamicin and Pen can be used together, SMZ and pen can be used together. Tetracycline and pen can NOT be used together.
Most people do use the OTC sulfa 1st off and that is part of the reason they are now useless. SMZ luckily is still RX and it is still effective(here on my farm anyways). Trimethoprim acts as a special agent as well to help with effectiveness.
Have to run to the goat and then run the kids to practices,..I do have more to add here, just can't at the moment.