Another worming q

[cmjust0]

Just read that she's never had any chemicals, ever...which means she just got treated for *most* but not *all* the worms you may be dealing with here.

One that causes diarrhea and comes to mind right away are tapeworms.. Ivermectin won't get a tapeworm -- you'd need to give either a benzamidazole class "white" dewormer (Safe-Guard, Valbazen, Panacur, etc) or something called praziquantel for that.

Not saying that's what it is, necessarily...I just hadn't thought about that until right this second..

Is she running a fever? Is she acting as though she's in pain or depressed...off her feed, laying around, grinding teeth, etc?

 

[Jupiter]

Tell us more about the scour, though...like, what color is it? Any blood or mucous or tissue shreds with it, or anything like that? And when you say it's really smelly...is it almost like the "parvo" smell, or..?

I don't actually know what Parvo smells like thank god, never dealt with it, but it's a really strong "earthy" kind of smell if that makes sense. Not acidic/sharp smelling??? Hard to describe :/ It's a light brown color, no tissue/mucous, just uniform liquid brown. Not quite like water, but it might be getting thicker as it was like a hose was on when she went last night, but today it's dribbling out instead of shooting out. No blood.

Just got back from cleaning down the walls of her stall actually. Yuck. But she did drink and she is nibbling baking soda as well as occasionally munching hay. She was getting grain and boss before this, but I cut back to just hay after this started as I think the other stuff was too rich. Should I have kept giving her grain?

I have given her the kaopectate....30ml actually, the human dose for kids over 12. Just one dose though, and the bottle says I can do it every 1/2 hour for adults, but I don't know with this...

Plus if it IS a bacterial bloom, she might need to get it out of her system?

 

[Jupiter]

Just read that she's never had any chemicals, ever...which means she just got treated for *most* but not *all* the worms you may be dealing with here.

One that causes diarrhea and comes to mind right away are tapeworms.. Ivermectin won't get a tapeworm -- you'd need to give either a benzamidazole class "white" dewormer (Safe-Guard, Valbazen, Panacur, etc) or something called praziquantel for that.

Not saying that's what it is, necessarily...I just hadn't thought about that until right this second..

Is she running a fever? Is she acting as though she's in pain or depressed...off her feed, laying around, grinding teeth, etc?

I've seen no tapeworm segments, and the vet didn't say anything about tapes, jsut that ivermectin would take care of it, no grinding teeth or acting different. I will take her temp, but she seems fine otherwise, lovey but not clingy and not off in a corner or lots of laying down. I think maybe you are right and the bacteria took over after the wormer.....

 

[cmjust0]

I dunno...very thin, light brown, and foul sounds bacterial, but I'd also expect her to be acting off and perhaps running a fever. Could just be really, really mild I guess..

But it doesn't sound dietary either...and she's off grain, so it's probably not acidosis.. And she doesn't even fit the age profile for coccidiosis..

I'd probably try some scour-halt. I'm prone to "try" things, though.. I know lots of people wag their fingers and to tsk tsk tsk at that, but I've spent enough time around vets to know that's exactly what they do.. Couldn't count the number of times I've had a vet say something like "Well, we could try ....." and just throw something out there.

Actually, human doctors do the same thing..

So, ya...I'd try some Scour-Halt, personally. I'd probably give her about 5ml every 12hrs or until the scouring stops -- but I wouldn't give more than 4 doses in 2 days. If 4 doses over 2 days doesn't put a dent in it, I'd be looking for another cause.

That's me, though.

 

[ksalvagno]

I had a male that showed a low cocci count but still had loose stool. While it normally wouldn't have been considered a problem, since he did still have loose stool, I did treat him for coccidia. The stool went back to pellets. So even though a "normal range" count of coccidia was present and normally wouldn't be treated, he needed it. Haven't had a problem since.

So don't count a coccidia problem out.

 

[Jupiter]

Thanks all, she went downhill fast and I made a run to the vet. Leaning against the wall and head weaving side to side, kind of going to sleep standing up. No fever though.

She's on re-sorb and albon now......she started to fight me on her second round of re-sorb so that's good.

The kaopectate didn't help that I could tell, but maybe I didn't dose enough or keep administering it, so not sure about that.

What are the odds though, that I get electrolytes into her lungs instead of into her belly where it belongs? That's gotta be bad too.

 

[Emmetts Dairy]

What are the odds though, that I get electrolytes into her lungs instead of into her belly where it belongs? That's gotta be bad too.

That is never good....thats why I always try to give them an eletrolyte mix with molassess in it. Mine guys drink it like its a snack...no matter how yuckie they feel....I always try to get them to drink it 1st. Cuz Im always afraid of getting a drench in thier lungs...but if you extend thier neck properly they should be fine...

 

[cmjust0]

Thanks all, she went downhill fast and I made a run to the vet. Leaning against the wall and head weaving side to side, kind of going to sleep standing up. No fever though.

She's on re-sorb and albon now......she started to fight me on her second round of re-sorb so that's good.

ReSorb is good, and it's good that she's fighting you.

I thought her coccidia counts had already checked and ruled OK, though? Albon is just name-brand dimethox, which is a coccidia treatment.. If she's 2 years old and has already been checked for coccidiosis...I guess I don't really get that. Did the vet re-check a fecal and find more oocysts or something?



If she doesn't start turning around pretty quickly on the Albon, you might consider asking your vet about adding some kind of better antibiotic just in case it's a bacterial problem. You might even mention the possibility of using SMZ-TMP, though they may have a problem with that....not really supposed to be used in food animals, if I recall correctly.

What are the odds though, that I get electrolytes into her lungs instead of into her belly where it belongs? That's gotta be bad too.

If you haven't already, run to TSC (or any farm store, really) and grab a real drench syringe.. They're much safer to use than drenching from a big 50ml catheter syringe or something like that, which is what a vet usually hands you.

With a drench syringe, what you'd want to do is get straddle of her neck, facing the same direction she's facing, and insert the nozzle at the corner of her mouth. The syringe should be more or less at a right angle to her cheek.. The nozzle has a bend in it, so you'd want to point the tip toward the back of her throat. With everything aligned that way, the tip of the nozzle should be resting on the back of her tongue. Make sure to keep her head as level as you can, also -- avoid the urge to tip her head back! -- and then push the plunger slowly.

When she feels the liquid hitting the back of her tongue, she'll swallow. It's more or less an involuntary reaction at that point.

 

[Jupiter]

Her stools are firming up, and she's better, but she's still not quite steady enough on her feet. Definite improvement, but not back to normal yet.

Vet said he saw one cocci when he did the original stool sample, that it wasn't enough to worry about, but when this happened, he though it wouldn't hurt to treat. If she doesn't continue to improve on the albon (why are they in pill form?!), I'll get the stuff you suggested, but I know I'll have to write it down or I'll never remember those names.

No I didn't have a drenching gun, just he 60 ml huge syringe, but she's more interested in drinking it now instead of spitting it out, so I'm not as worried about her aspirating. I'll get the drench gun on my to buy list though.

Thanks you guys, you all deserve flowers --Big ones.

 

[ksalvagno]

Albon does come in liquid form. That is what I get. I guess it depends on the vet. My vet carries the liquid.

Also, eggs aren't shed in every fecal. So one fecal could have no eggs and another one be loaded with eggs. One clean fecal doesn't guarantee anything.

Great that she is improving, I hope she continues for you.