Any tips for a first time goat buyer?

[Alaskan]

You hit the nail on the head, I'm such an over thinker, honestly. Thank you for the response and I will certainly post photos! I like having these forums because everyones support makes me feel like i can jump in with both feet. Thank you all!

What mini said ...

And I would go with the doe in milk.

 

[Amaggio]

One last question, after getting a response from the seller I was able to get a bunch of information about the does who will be in milk. They said they let the dam raise the babies until 9-10 weeks and then get them milk tested, most of their does milk 3.5-4lbs with 5.5-6 milk fat on average. However, after weaning the seller doesn't continue to milk the doe and lets them dry up. I have no lactation period to go by and I would have to get a four year old doe to get used to being milked every day. The seller thinks it shouldn't be a problem but I thought I would ask all of you before I jump head first. My options, try to buy a doe and doeling or just two doeling kids? Thanks in advance!

 

[Alaskan]

So the only does in milk that she will be selling are 4 years old?


And wowsers that you have no idea how long they might lactate.

I would call around and see what else is out there.

Yes, I know you said nothing else was close... but a long road trip,done once, isn't that bad.

 

[Mini Horses]

If a longer road trip not happening this time -- yes, there will be more times -- I would suggest a doe and doeling. That way the doe is in milk and has a friend to lessen her moving upset (the doeling), then time to integrate with these wethers you are getting. She will not automatically like them just because they are also goats. They will need to be fence line introduced for a while and not just put together. Plus, this will give you 2 does to breed after baby grows up. You can milk doe and keep production up, taking more as doeling is weaned. Be aware with mom right there, she may be harder to wean, unless separated by fence for a while.

Wethers can be good or not. Personality thing. You will just have to decide once you interact. There are none here at my farm, unless growing out for butcher and in a boy vs girl pen.

 

[Amaggio]

I am posting here in case anyone who gave me advice would like to see my two options for does in milk.

Help me decide, two goat options

Hi all, I'm adding Nigerian Dwarfs this year. I already have two options for does in milk and would love some input to help me make an educated decision. The couple who runs the farm is slowly decreasing their herd each year as they are getting ready to retire. The two options are as follows...

www.backyardherds.com

You opinions and tips are very much so appreciated.

 

[Ridgetop]

After reading what people have said I will likely only contact the one breeder that tests for all three, the herd was last tested in 2019. Their website claims that they like to keep a small herd and their goats all have friendly dispositions. They claim that "Many Have JRCH, JRGRCH, CH, RSCH, GRCH, RSGRCH, Master Champion, ARMCH, MCH/PGCH, SG, Elite status, milk stars, high LA scores, High Milk Production awards with top milk producing bloodlines from these legendary farms." The only thing is none of the details per doe, nor images of udders, or anything specific is found on their website other than their 2020 spring breeding schedule.

I have a lot of points to set out here! You are new to goats and while all the great stuff the herd owner is advertising sounds like you will be getting a terrific goat, let's take each point separately. I should also mention that I prefer standard dairy goats to the miniatures for a lot of reasons, mainly I don't have to bend over as far to lead them, clip them (for sanitary reasons you will want to clip up the udder and butt before kidding and sometimes during the milking season if the goat is a hairier breed), do hooves, and assist during kidding if needed..


First, listing information that many of the goats have the Champion, JR. Champion etc. stats is not needed for what you want First, any goat entered in a local show can win either Champion or Jr. Champion depending on the competition, particularly in 4-H shows. They may be the only goats entered and automatically win the championship. Goat championshiops only for the individual show, unless you defeat a certain number of animals in a certain number of shows while in milk and the shows must be registered with ADGA licensed shows. Jr. championship titles are worthless to you because they are only for kids and dry yearlings. As soon as the doe freshens, if her udder is not good she will never win again. Unless you plan a show career, ignore all the advertised show wins and titles.

Next, all the Elite status and high LA (linear appraisal) scores are also not of interest tp you at this point, Linear appraisal is what breeders do once they have a lot of goats and are showing. A judge or appraiser from the registry takes special classes and is sent out to appraise the entire herd. The herd owner pays for this herd appraisal and they use it to judge their herd's body types as they are judged by the show standard. It has nothing to do with milk yields. All animals in the herd must be appraised, after which many herd owners will cull based on the scores if they are showing.

Finally the wording

High Milk Production awards with top milk producing bloodlines from these legendary farms."

only means that the herds they bought their original breeding stock from were on milk test and that they bought goats from those good bloodlines. Go back far enough and most goats will have some illustrious herd name somewhere. It doesn't mean that the current goats are of that quality.

Focus on what you want these goats for - milk production and ease of milking. Those "legendary farms" on test usually are using milking machines due to higher numbers of goats being milked, not hand milking. Different teats are preferred for machines and hand milking. Large teats are easier to milk by hand but will be discouraged for machine milking AND appraised with lower LA scores.

Don't be confused by the breeder saying they do milk test. The breeder that says they "allow the goats to raise their kids for the first 10 weeks" before putting them on "milk test" for a month is not talking about a true milk test. The kind of milk test they are talking is a one or 2 day milk test. The does is milked every 12 hours for 2 or 3 milkings, and that amount of milk, and butterfat count is considered the entire test. This is a different type of test than a true milk test which will show you the entire lactation history of the animal. That type of milk test can be used to obtain milk stars but is not reliable for judging the daily yield of a house milker. The household milker must give milk for 10 months. Many goats have a huge amount of milk the first 3 months then trickle down to a minimal amount finally drying off around 6 months into lactation. This is worthless since you re now feeding the goat for a full year for a tiny amount of milk. The valuable household milker will give a reliable amount of milk only starting to reduce the quantity in her 8th month allowing you to dry her off at 10 months, 2 months before she kids again and starts the entire milking process over.

FOR THE HOUSEHOLD MILK ANIMAL THE MILK IS THE FOCUS, NOT THE BABIES. THEY ARE JUST THE MEANS BY WHICH SHE IS BROUGHT INTO PRODUCTION. Don't befooled by fake one day milk tests into thinking you are buying a reliable mik production goat.

A true milk tested doe is milked every 12 hours for 10 months. Her milk is weighed in lbs. every day at each milking (8 lbs. = 1 gallon) and records are kept of the lactation. milk weighs differently during different times of lactation since more cream weighs less than milk solids. Depending on the month of her lactation the weight of the milk will vary. The owner of the goat who keeps records will be able to give you the annual output of the animal at the end of the 10 month lactation. They will also have records listing the butterfat, solids, etc. because the tester has to come to the farm every month to supervise the milking procedure. Then the tester takes samples from each animal, packs up the samples they have taken, along with the weight of the milk, and ships them off to the lab for testing butterfat solids and any other stuff treated to disease etc. MIlk testing costs money.

I would focus on the fact that these goats have not been disease tested since 2019. Why not? You need to test annually to make sure your herd does not become infected. Even pasteurizing all the kids does not take the place of annual testing blood testing for CAE or other diseases.

Another thing, getting a first freshening doe in milk that has only been nursing her kids is a bad idea if you are new to milking. The doe who has been nursing her kids may refuse to let her milk down - yes they can do this! They also might kick and fight you about milking. It is not the same as getting an older doe that has been hand or machine milked through several lactations. The first freshener wants her kids nursing not someone milking her by hand. Chances are that doe has not been bottle raised either, which can mean that she is not as friendly as you need and will be skittish on the milk stand.

Personally, I would look for a standard size dairy goat. You mention Nubians and they do give larger quantities of milk with usually higher butterfat. This will be good for drinking, cooking, and cheesemaking, (which requires a tremendous amount of milk to make even a small amount of cheese). Not all goats give the same amount of milk. We had high yielders but most milkers will average about 6 lbs. per day - 3/4 of a gallon. You can use the extra milk to feed pigs, dogs, or chickens. By regulating the amount of grain you feed, (the ratio is 1 lb. grain for 1 lb. milk produced) you can cut the amount of milk your goat will produce. I would prefer to milk ONE standard goat for 3-4 quarts than several giving 3-4 pints. You can make yogurt ice cream, and cheese with the extra. Also, don't forget that you will be bottle feeding her kids for 2 months after kidding too.

My reasons for standard dairy goats is that a properly trained and fed standard dairy doe is just as easy to control and lead around as a shorter dwarf breed. In fact, often easier. You mentioned your parents are older - do they want to lead around the goat while stooping over or would it be easier on their backs to be standing upright. At 2 and 3 years old my toddlers would catch our large Nubian goats and lead them back to their pen if they got out. Train the goats and they will be fine. It is the training not the size that makes a difference.

To go along with training - I really recommend that you get bottle raised kids. They will be much friendlier than dam raised kids and will already be used to being handled and led around.

Finally, I would look for a good standard Nubian goat (since you mentioned that breed) whose owner keeps milk records, whether on test or not, milks for a long lactation, has been bottle raised, in her 2nd to 4th lactation and has a decent udder and teats. If possible get 2 experienced milkers or 1 experienced milker and a doe kid or yearling to keep her company. Ask the breeder if she offers stud service as long as you don't bring any goats from other herds onto your property. THEN MILK THE GOAT AND TASTE THE MILK BEFORE BUYING! There is nothing worse than buying your milker, getting her home, and finding that her teats are too small or large for comfortable milking, her udder is so pendulous it cuts off the circulation in your hands as is rests on your arms while you milk, or she fights and kicks every time yu try tomilk her

 

[Amaggio]

I have a lot of points to set out here!

First, i want to thank you for your input. You put a lot of information out there and many of your points i have thought about myself. To the owner's credit they have been completely transparent with me about their dealings with their does, how they raise them, and about the milking stars. I was made fully aware of the one day milk test and was invited to the farm once the does kid only requiring a deposit once i decide on a kid and finalize my decision about a doe. Many people have suggested tasting the milk first and that will be something I'm ask about. As i said before i chose the nd because my elderly parents help me on the farm and while i would certainly love to add a nubian i will be sticking with nd due to size and butterfat content. Better to start small and work your way up. Thank you for offering your experience, i appreciate it!

 

[Ridgetop]

Have a lot of fun! I really like the udder on the black and white doe.