Anybody familiar with pfizer's Glanvac 3 vaccine?

[beckyburkheart]

I would NEVER vaccinate without vet advice and support. I have a good equine specialist locally and they are working with me to find an experienced goat vet.

I have talked to a several different vets now. They don't think it's Johnes for two reasons. 1) they're saying it's extremely rare and 2) because it doesn't usually decimate a herd like I'm seeing. They say generally only about 10% of the animals will go down with it. I've had over 50% loss.

The blood test can be inconclusive and they want to necropsy. Since I don't know in advance when one is going to die in order to take off work to get the body to the vet during office hours, that means I have to have one euthanized to examine.

- yes, i realize this is an old thread, but it was the most relevant one i found.

 

[Latestarter]

Truly sorry you're losing your herd to "something". I can only imagine your pain, anxiety and frustration. I can't think of any words to offer in support or diagnostic... You say you've lost 50% of your herd... What have been the symptoms? the time frame involved?

Just throwing this out there, but is there any possibility that your herd may have contracted CL which is affecting them internally? Can you take the weakest animal that you feel will be the next to go and get it to a vet for necropsy?

I really hope you'll let us know the outcome here as it could help someone else down the road if they experience the same sort of thing.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I would NEVER vaccinate without vet advice and support. I have a good equine specialist locally and they are working with me to find an experienced goat vet.

I have talked to a several different vets now. They don't think it's Johnes for two reasons. 1) they're saying it's extremely rare and 2) because it doesn't usually decimate a herd like I'm seeing. They say generally only about 10% of the animals will go down with it. I've had over 50% loss.

The blood test can be inconclusive and they want to necropsy. Since I don't know in advance when one is going to die in order to take off work to get the body to the vet during office hours, that means I have to have one euthanized to examine.

- yes, i realize this is an old thread, but it was the most relevant one i found.

So sorry you are dealing with this

You may not see Johne's all the time, but I wouldn't say its extremely rare.

In the U.S. it is estimated that 8% of the beef herds and 68% of the dairy herds contain at least one animal infected with MAP. - http://www.johnes.org/general/faqs.html#4

I know of a dairy goat breeder that lost their herd to Johne's years back.

I understand that is can be difficult to have a necropsy run. If you have a large cooler and maybe some ice, that should be okay for a little bit. How far is your state lab from you? We have several labs (not vet clinics- they are more thorough and you generally get a conclusive answer) and they are fantastic! They have coolers that you can drop dead animals off at anytime. Just make sure they are bagged properly and have the appropriate paperwork attached.

Taking the weakest animal in to be put down & necropsied would be a good idea. Do they have any symptoms, or are you just finding them dead?

Blood testing isn't the most accurate but I would still send out some tests, both the AGID an ELIZA tests for short term just to see what they say. At our lab its only $1.50 per test. Don't know what your lab charges.

A fecal test (culture) would be very good as well. This is more reliable then blood testing but takes time.

Have you checked for parasites?

 

[beckyburkheart]

I really appreciate all the support. This is so hard.

I started a new job a couple of years ago and found it hard to maintain the stock as they needed. In addition to severe reductions (20 horses down to 3, 80+ does down to 25... etc...) and figuring out in several ways that 'help' wasn't the way to go as care still suffered- i thought I had reduced enough and found some balance . They seemed fine up until they freshened this spring. we started losing a few by the time the first kids were about 6wks old and it's been a chaotic downward spiral.

they're on good pasture plus getting good hay and more grain than they will eat. we've wormed and again, "over dosed" on the wormer, and purged, including changing wormers and updated all shots.

some have looked great through it all, fat and shiny. many have gotten thin and somewhat recovered. the one's we've lost have lost weight and lost the use of their back legs, and developed severe diarrhea. They've maintain a bright eye and strong appetite up until the end.

We thought about meningeal worms, retreated with overdoses of ivermec and dmso for spinal inflammation (as iv'e used before in different cases under vet's supervision). we had slight improvement in a couple of them and thought we had it figured out but have since been hit hard with another downward spiral. In the last week or so, i have two that i expected to have gone by now that seem to be holding steady and none of the others seem to be getting worse except we've lost several kids that seemed to be fine as far as energy and weight. - so i don't know.

the goat vet i've found says "worms are bad this year". he wants to necropsy ($200+), then sell me wormer and vitamins - he's already said. So honestly, i'm not sure i'm going to do that. if he's right about the worms, then I may not have given them enough time to recover. If he's wrong about the worms, he sounds like he's already made his mind up anyway. ...

 

[beckyburkheart]

forgot to say - i've seen CL and we're not seeing any tumors. i know you don't always, but i think if thats what it was, with this many, at least a few tumors would be evident.

 

[babsbag]

Usually you won't see Johne's in kids and you can't even test them until they are 18 months old. The blood test is reliable if you have not vaccinated your animals, which you haven't. Also, diarrhea is not common in goats with Johne's. I would test your oldest goats in the herd and any that you have bought. If they are clean then their offspring will be clean if there is no cattle on the land.

I would get a fecal done and draw blood on the ones that look the worst and the best and send it in for a mineral analysis. If you are going to pay for a necrospy I would make certain that it is done by a lab that can run tests and grow cultures. CAE, CL, Johnes, TB, Brucellossis, and Mycoplasma. Also a full mineral workup. Texas A&M would be a good choice, you can ship it FedEx or maybe your vet would do it and send in tissue and blood samples.

 

[OneFineAcre]

I would NEVER vaccinate without vet advice and support. I have a good equine specialist locally and they are working with me to find an experienced goat vet.

I have talked to a several different vets now. They don't think it's Johnes for two reasons. 1) they're saying it's extremely rare and 2) because it doesn't usually decimate a herd like I'm seeing. They say generally only about 10% of the animals will go down with it. I've had over 50% loss.

The blood test can be inconclusive and they want to necropsy. Since I don't know in advance when one is going to die in order to take off work to get the body to the vet during office hours, that means I have to have one euthanized to examine.

- yes, i realize this is an old thread, but it was the most relevant one i found.

I agree with Babs about the necropsy. A veterinarian is not a pathologist and most likely can't do all of the lab work required.

They can do a "gross" necropsy and look for obvious things

 

[beckyburkheart]

Thank you so much! I feel like I've been blind. I've worked with A&M before. I'll get some samples to them ASAP.

 

[Latestarter]

I'd hesitate to use a vet that already has his mind made up... A state lab is many times better as a choice. Wishing you luck!

 

[babsbag]

Mineral analysis is usually done in a blue top tube so they can test for zinc. I say do the best and the worst and compare the results. I had a kid die last year from selenium deficiency at 4 months of age, no signs of illness at all; came home and he was dead in the feeder. Also lost a doe about the same time, results were inconclusive on her.

I would definitely have a vet do a fecal for you, shouldn't cost that much. If you do send in an animal for a necropsy I would ask about other diseases or parasites too, like Giardia. I have no idea what the symptoms are other than scours but when you are grasping at straws grab them all.

Hope you can get some answers.