Anybody have success with getting a cow back up once it's down?

[Wehner Homestead]

I’m trying to figure out keeping a bull until he’s 15!?! Did he not retain any daughters or is his herd that large??

 

[greybeard]

I’m trying to figure out keeping a bull until he’s 15!?! Did he not retain any daughters or is his herd that large??

He's probably got 300 hd scattered between here and San Antonio. He keeps each of his bulls till death do 'em part.
With few exceptions, he never sells a heifer. Commercial herd. He's been doing it a long time and making $$ so I can't knock him. Them people lined up at McDonalds don't care about genetics and until I showed him mine, he'd never seen, much less had a use for a calf jack.

 

[Wehner Homestead]

Very interesting! To each their own. It seems to be working for him, even though it’s not something that others would do in their herd.

 

[farmerjan]

It is not common in beef cattle, but is there any possibility that due to your statement that the cow is a bit smaller and might be getting pushed away from the feed, that she is weak from lack of nutrients and being close to calving is just weak from "starvation rations" ? What about "milk fever" or what is called Pregnancy toxemia in sheep? It is due to their bodies pulling nutrients from their muscles and bones when they are close to calving. "Milk fever" is more common in dairy animals, especially Jersey's.... but could also be contributing to the weakness of a cow that is close. Milk fever does not only occur right at calving. Have had a few over the years that had to be treated both before and again after calving. Sometimes more than a week before or after calving.

Besides what has been suggested, there are several "gels" that can be given to animals. They are for calcium deficiency - for milk fever, and different combinations. But there is also one that is a "high energy" type that has propylene glycol which will help any animal that is weak.

I do think the hip lift might help to get her up and allow the blood flow back into muscles that lose feeling... like when your foot or leg "goes to sleep" from being in one position for too long. Rolling her over to the other side will help too but be sure you do not roll her over on her back. Tuck her feet and roll her over her feet to the other side. If you roll her over on her back, it could cause the uterus to twist or for her to get a DA.

 

[greybeard]

Very interesting! To each their own. It seems to be working for him, even though it’s not something that others would do in their herd.

Happens more often than we probably think. Most of the consumer end in-store purchase of beef is select grade beef, regardless of what we try to produce. He's selling beef, not pedigree and his potload of calves will sell every year. Worse that can happen is he comes up with some open cows one year and he'll have to change bulls. All the stuff about 2 headed or 3 legged calves seedstock producers talk about is really a pretty rare occurrence.
The only difference between linebreeding vs inbreeding is IF recessive traits show up. If they don't, don't go fixing what ain't broke. I personally go 3x, that's it.

 

[Wehner Homestead]

We try to avoid linebreeding completely just in case a bull escapes, we aren’t in big trouble. That has happened. We had a heifer bred by her paternal half brother. Turned out fine but we were very guarded. That heifer was born last year and will be joining a friend’s herd.

I also feel like bulls tend to get more aggressive as they get older and when they begin to challenge us...between ages 3-5 typically, we take to the sale barn.

 

[farmerjan]

We keep bulls for many years if they produce calves that we like. I am careful with the records to try to not breed kept heifers back to sire or grandsire. If the bull doesn't get aggressive and his calves do good, we have been known to keep a bull for 6-10 years. We do have different pastures to move them to and need several in the summer when we have cattle scattered at different places. We just shipped a bull that was 4 or 5 when we bought him from a registered breeder. They got him from Montana. Used him 4 years and then a neighbor used him this past year on a group of his heifers. He has BIG cattle and these heifers were big. This bull was a very "easy breeder" and not rough with the heifers. He started having some feet problems so he got shipped as soon as he was walking good.

We kept our Red Poll bull til he was nearly 13 and only then shipped him because his arthritis made it painful to get up and we would not make him suffer through another winter. He had broken a bone in his hock joint at 6 and the vet said to get rid of him then, but said that if we opted not to, that 6 months of NO WORK and he might heal enough to use. The joint was enlarged, but he did fine and went on to service cows for many more years. His disposition was beyond reproach, he would come to a bucket and load himself into the trailer to go "visit the girls". We NEVER saw him breed a cow, but he never had one come up open. Any problem breeders went with "Bubba". Both my son and I shed a few tears when we put him on a trailer to go directly to slaughter.

We do not find bulls get more aggressive as they get older but it could be because they are given enough work to do and then retired to the "bull lot" for several months or r & r. But we are very conscious of their behavior, and any that show any aggession to us, leaves in a hurry. I don't want that attitude in the calves either. You never trust a bull, or a cow for that matter, to turn your back on them, but they also learn that we are the "main bull" and that they have to yield to our will. We make allowances for a cow with a new calf and being protective; and a bull that first goes into a new field with cows, so that he can get settled in. But mean, they are shipped.
Our biggest problem with older bulls is that they one day decide to "go across the fence" to a neighbor... then they won't stay "home". And you are not going to stop them if they decide to go....
We have gone into other pastures where the bull has decided to visit and led them with a bucket of grain out a gate, up the road or into a trailer many times. We will relocate them to a different pasture, but if they get out again, they go to the bull lot until they are shipped.

 

[Wehner Homestead]

We keep bulls for many years if they produce calves that we like. I am careful with the records to try to not breed kept heifers back to sire or grandsire. If the bull doesn't get aggressive and his calves do good, we have been known to keep a bull for 6-10 years. We do have different pastures to move them to and need several in the summer when we have cattle scattered at different places. We just shipped a bull that was 4 or 5 when we bought him from a registered breeder. They got him from Montana. Used him 4 years and then a neighbor used him this past year on a group of his heifers. He has BIG cattle and these heifers were big. This bull was a very "easy breeder" and not rough with the heifers. He started having some feet problems so he got shipped as soon as he was walking good.

We kept our Red Poll bull til he was nearly 13 and only then shipped him because his arthritis made it painful to get up and we would not make him suffer through another winter. He had broken a bone in his hock joint at 6 and the vet said to get rid of him then, but said that if we opted not to, that 6 months of NO WORK and he might heal enough to use. The joint was enlarged, but he did fine and went on to service cows for many more years. His disposition was beyond reproach, he would come to a bucket and load himself into the trailer to go "visit the girls". We NEVER saw him breed a cow, but he never had one come up open. Any problem breeders went with "Bubba". Both my son and I shed a few tears when we put him on a trailer to go directly to slaughter.

We do not find bulls get more aggressive as they get older but it could be because they are given enough work to do and then retired to the "bull lot" for several months or r & r. But we are very conscious of their behavior, and any that show any aggession to us, leaves in a hurry. I don't want that attitude in the calves either. You never trust a bull, or a cow for that matter, to turn your back on them, but they also learn that we are the "main bull" and that they have to yield to our will. We make allowances for a cow with a new calf and being protective; and a bull that first goes into a new field with cows, so that he can get settled in. But mean, they are shipped.
Our biggest problem with older bulls is that they one day decide to "go across the fence" to a neighbor... then they won't stay "home". And you are not going to stop them if they decide to go....
We have gone into other pastures where the bull has decided to visit and led them with a bucket of grain out a gate, up the road or into a trailer many times. We will relocate them to a different pasture, but if they get out again, they go to the bull lot until they are shipped.

We have basically the same theory on docility and exceptions here for cows and bulls also.

It seems like ours get comfortable with us and about age three we notice they get more daring. Another year of breeding and they’ll start to outright challenge you. This is our first purebred SIMM so I’m hoping he doesn’t have this track record! We really like him.

I do know people that buy older bulls or keep them until they have too many daughters but with only having 15-20, it doesn’t take long and can’t justify a second bull although I think we are going to bite the bullet and swallow the cost next year if having two.

 

[Latestarter]

Ummm Can't you simply sell the one you have and purchase a replacement? Or maybe find another family and "trade" bulls for a couple of seasons? I know you're pleased with the bull you have and the calves he produces, but if you can't use him for breeding any of the younger stock that he's sired, why bother keeping him and still having to pay for a new bull for the younguns? I'd think it would be cheaper to just replace and start over fresh with new blood all the way around and not have to feed and maintain two bulls.

 

[Wehner Homestead]

@Latestarter the jury is still out. DH would have more bulls than I have intact bucks (6) at the moment if I didn’t put my foot down. Lol