Asking for ideas on how to "manage" coyotes

[soarwitheagles]

Do not use prey animals as protection animals. Google it to see the horrific end results.

Hot wire, very hot. Strand at the ground, strand at the top. Barbed wire does nothing.

They will get used to the light and sound machines, so they will soon be useless.

Keeping the flock in the barn at night can help some.

Chicken wire is junk, if they really want the chickens, they will easily shred it. Add hot wire to it.

Several adult, proven LGDs will help a ton. One or two isn't enough, a pack of coyotes can split them up and kill the dogs. Puppies and teen dogs are also no good.

secuono, thank you for sharing your insights. I have been looking at the various electrical fencing at our local Tractor Supply. How "hot" do you recommend the voltage be?

I just finished building a nice sheep house, but these American Blackbelly sheep appear to enjoy sleeping outside. They will not go inside unless it is raining a lot. Today, we had to give some injections, and some of these sheep ran and jumped nearly six foot high in the air. They genuinely looked like Santa's reindeer and at first, we laughed so hard...but then I began to think, these creatures can really hurt humans if we are not careful...

Another thought...although our friends 5 miles away lost 17 baby lambs in 3 weeks to coyotes, maybe our situation is different...our friend did not have any good fencing at all. He did not light up the flock at night. He has no close by neighbors, Last, he has a stream of fresh water that runs directly through his property.

Our neighbors directly across from us have free range goats that are constantly having kids and he hasn't lost even one to coyotes...so, maybe we may be better off than I realize.

Knowing the level of predator threat is important.
Some areas the threat is very low, some very high.

When we interview for one of our dogs, and this should include those interviewing for donkeys and llamas, we look at many factors. Area size, predator type, level, and other deterrent factors.

Here in our neck not too many "packs" of coyotes... generally they hunt alone. However next door is a cattle farm and the past few years they have have serious increase... because of the size of animals (calves) they come in larger numbers. 7 miles down the road they are traveling in packs of 7-10 suddenly... coyotes are increasing in numbers here for whatever reason.

Generally at night is when predators are most active-when you sleep- guns are great but the animal is already maimed or dead by the time you get there.

Sometimes people go through serious overkill and they have so little predator issue it really is unnecessary.

Before going through extreme expense learn your land.

We don't have a great deal of land but we do have a team or trio in each field. Each team is strategically matched. We have never had loss of poultry, geese, turkeys, or goats. Actually a few turkeys but that was because they were NOT in the areas covered by the dogs. We have had livestock theft prevented on more than one occasion.

Because dogs are not a good option for you, llamas would be a good second choice. Donkeys do seem to have more issues.

Merry Christmas to you both! It will be fun to watch your farm grow! How exciting!

Southern by choice, how can I the level of predator threat? Perhaps I can ask more close by neighbors?

I do know we had a significant increase of the red fox last year. Several kits were born nearby. But can a fox kill a lamb?

I think I will carefully monitor the security cam footage for the entire perimeter of the property, keeping watch over what/when motion detectors were set off.

IMO you see the predator increases here in the East because of the great food supply! I'm in VA, Southern -- and only a few miles from NC line. The deer and small game in these areas are very well fed with the general crops grown -- they love the corn, soybeans, milo, winter wheat -- and huge areas of cropland. Being very opportunistic hunters, they go for the young livestock that is already penned for them. When feed is available the coyote breed more, as opposed to when the times are tough for them.

We used to have a lot of fox and had seen coyote once. Last year the neighbor behind has advised that there isn't much threat of them as "target practice" was going real well !! And, haven't seen one in a long, long time. Seems the skunks are thinned out, too.

Lots of wildlife here Mini Horses. We often see possums, skunk, hawks, owls, coons, turkeys, etc. For years I could open my front door, draw a bead on a turkey, and enjoy wild turkey jerky for weeks. Oh, I better add the fact that we used a Benjamin Marauder .25 PCP air rifle to make it legal. This is the first year when the turkey flocks were decimated...not sure what did it...I have been thinking it could be the foxes, or even poachers...

I haven't seen a coyote on the property for some time, but 3-4 nights ago we heard a ferocious coyote fight not more than 50 yards from our sheep pen...and that's what got me to thinking I had better have a good plan...

 

[Bossroo]

What is the nearest town to your property. Ours is 10 miles NE of Clovis, Cal. . I have seen several coydogs on and near ours as members of coyote packs. The coydogs tend to be much bigger ( like 2x+ larger ) and often a lighter or darker color depending on the cross than coyotes. One of our neighbors owns 5,000 acres and runs 500 beef cow ranch just a mile down a dead end road from us. He , some friends and I have had some good target practice on up to several dozen coyotes and a couple coydogs on annual winter weekend safaries. This is needed as when a cow is down giving birth, the coyotes run up and start to eat the calf's nose off and continues the onslaught untill the cow gets up and it is too late for the calf. It is much better to be prepared and proactive then to suffer losses.

 

[Southern by choice]

What is the nearest town to your property. Ours is 10 miles NE of Clovis, Cal. . I have seen several coydogs on and near ours as members of coyote packs. The coydogs tend to be much bigger ( like 2x+ larger ) and often a lighter or darker color depending on the cross than coyotes. One of our neighbors owns 5,000 acres and runs 500 beef cow ranch just a mile down a dead end road from us. He , some friends and I have had some good target practice on up to several dozen coyotes and a couple coydogs on annual winter weekend safaries. This is needed as when a cow is down giving birth, the coyotes run up and start to eat the calf's nose off and continues the onslaught untill the cow gets up and it is too late for the calf. It is much better to be prepared and proactive then to suffer losses.

Past few years that has been an issue with the cattle farmers and the horse people. They end up eating the rear of the mother off too.
They all have donkeys... donkeys do a fair job but can't keep up nor do they keep the coyotes from coming in in the first place.
My son is a licensed trapper and has had quite a few requests this year.

The goat farms here all have LGD's as well as the sheep farms (more goats here than sheep) ... no losses.

Good fencing is a must but definitely not the whole picture.
A great guardian, whether it be a donkey, llama, or dog is what protects the flock/herd.

 

[soarwitheagles]

What is the nearest town to your property. Ours is 10 miles NE of Clovis, Cal. . I have seen several coydogs on and near ours as members of coyote packs. The coydogs tend to be much bigger ( like 2x+ larger ) and often a lighter or darker color depending on the cross than coyotes. One of our neighbors owns 5,000 acres and runs 500 beef cow ranch just a mile down a dead end road from us. He , some friends and I have had some good target practice on up to several dozen coyotes and a couple coydogs on annual winter weekend safaries. This is needed as when a cow is down giving birth, the coyotes run up and start to eat the calf's nose off and continues the onslaught untill the cow gets up and it is too late for the calf. It is much better to be prepared and proactive then to suffer losses.

Bossroo,

We are approximately 5 miles from the nearest city. The coyote I saw here was huge. Its back was nearly at waist level. I thought it was a wolf at first. Then I googled coyote and I recognized immediately it had the features of a coyote. On the way to work one day I saw another coyote, but it was tiny in comparison to the one I saw in our back forest.

Yes, I will be proactive.

1. I am going to Tractor Supply today for electrical fencing.
2. Later today, I will make sure the red dot scope is still dead on.
3. Today I am installing a photo sensor area light from Home Depot that will light up the entire sheep pen just like daytime.
4. Will go to the CDFW and see about the legality of placing steel leg traps for coyotes.
5. Install some game cameras in the back forest area today.
6. Clear a "buffer zone" by falling nearby trees that I feel give cover and are too close to the sheep pen.
7. Get on our knees and cry out to heaven for supernatural, divine protection over our sheep [maybe number 7 should be at number 1].

 

[goatgurl]

good luck with the fence building. I'm confused, do youall live on the property or do you just come out to care for your animals? i will add that a friend of mine kept a donkey in with his goats as a guardian and he got so mean that he attacked the friends children and badly injured one of them. i am a big believer in a pair of good livestock guardian dogs. the area i live in has some serious predators, mountain lions, black bears, wild boar and a large coyote population. nothing has worked as well for me as a pair of big barky dogs. there are several breeds that are both excellent guardians of livestock and loving with the family. with the type of fence you are building you shouldn't have a problem keeping a dog inside as well as keep the coyotes out. hope it works out well for you.

 

[babsbag]

I have to ask, you say you live in Central Valley, CA as if that is a town. Do you mean you live in "the" central valley? You talk about woods and yet there aren't many areas of the central valley that have woods nearby. I live up near Redding and I am just trying to figure out where you located. I looked for a town called Central Vally and can't find one but little places are popping up all of the time so just being curious.

I wouldn't go with a charger less the one joule, and more would be better. There are also coyote rollers that you install on the top of the fences but I think that they are $$$

 

[soarwitheagles]

good luck with the fence building. I'm confused, do youall live on the property or do you just come out to care for your animals? i will add that a friend of mine kept a donkey in with his goats as a guardian and he got so mean that he attacked the friends children and badly injured one of them. i am a big believer in a pair of good livestock guardian dogs. the area i live in has some serious predators, mountain lions, black bears, wild boar and a large coyote population. nothing has worked as well for me as a pair of big barky dogs. there are several breeds that are both excellent guardians of livestock and loving with the family. with the type of fence you are building you shouldn't have a problem keeping a dog inside as well as keep the coyotes out. hope it works out well for you.

I have to ask, you say you live in Central Valley, CA as if that is a town. Do you mean you live in "the" central valley? You talk about woods and yet there aren't many areas of the central valley that have woods nearby. I live up near Redding and I am just trying to figure out where you located. I looked for a town called Central Vally and can't find one but little places are popping up all of the time so just being curious.

I wouldn't go with a charger less the one joule, and more would be better. There are also coyote rollers that you install on the top of the fences but I think that they are $$$

goatgurl and babsbag,

So sorry for the confusion. Yes, we reside at our ranch. We are located between Stockton and Sacramento California east of Galt, and yes, there are large forests/groves of Eucalyptus on all sides in this area. Hope this helps!

 

[babsbag]

I just drove through you neck of the woods today on my way home from Yosemite. I just never think of Eucalyptus as being forest or woods but I am sure they are thick. Since they aren't native to CA my brain never goes there but I have seen many large groves of them in that area. I know that many of them were planted in hopes of using them as a sustainable source of fuel. But now CA has decided that wood stoves aren't a good source of heat because of air pollution so I think that project was dropped.

I used hot wire on our fence for coyotes for years before the LGDs. I got the dogs more for me than for the coyotes as the fence seemed to work. I have a wire at the bottom outside and one at the top that extended out from the top of the no-climb fencing and then another one about 6" higher then the fence. My DH also runs a jumper wire from the ground wire to the fence so the fence acts as a ground too so that way the coyote won't have to be touching the ground to get shocked, just touching the fence will be enough of a groun for them to get shocked. I had a new section of pasture and I saw evidence of coyote coming over the fence when I didn't have a wire installed, we put on a wire and no more coyote.

 

[soarwitheagles]

I just drove through you neck of the woods today on my way home from Yosemite. I just never think of Eucalyptus as being forest or woods but I am sure they are thick. Since they aren't native to CA my brain never goes there but I have seen many large groves of them in that area. I know that many of them were planted in hopes of using them as a sustainable source of fuel. But now CA has decided that wood stoves aren't a good source of heat because of air pollution so I think that project was dropped.

I used hot wire on our fence for coyotes for years before the LGDs. I got the dogs more for me than for the coyotes as the fence seemed to work. I have a wire at the bottom outside and one at the top that extended out from the top of the no-climb fencing and then another one about 6" higher then the fence. My DH also runs a jumper wire from the ground wire to the fence so the fence acts as a ground too so that way the coyote won't have to be touching the ground to get shocked, just touching the fence will be enough of a groun for them to get shocked. I had a new section of pasture and I saw evidence of coyote coming over the fence when I didn't have a wire installed, we put on a wire and no more coyote.

babsbag,

Redding is a beautiful area! My wife and I fished Baum lake [east of you], a couple of Christmas' ago and it was amazing. Cold, but amazing sized rainbow trout. If I remember correctly, they have one of the only Golden Trout hatcheries in the world there at Crystal Lake Hatchery.

I like your idea of 3 electric wires. I went to Tractor Supply this evening and they promised me a 10% coupon tomorrow. Since I need to purchase over 2,000 linear feet of the fencing the 4ft. woven wire and electrical fence parts, I decided to wait until then.

The millions of Eucalyptus in this area were planted over 100 years ago under the assumption that it would make excellent furniture wood and railway ties. Little did they know that the Eucalyptus would grow different here...yes, terribly twisted and easy to crack due to the climate difference between California and Australia. The good news is yes, they make beautiful forests, and the wood burns incredibly hot and clean.

Are these forests thick? Check out my pic. There are areas where you can't even walk through it, but you must either climb up and through the Eucalyptus or crawl on your tummy under the brush. That's a wild turkey you see there. I hunt these in an unconventional way...as in crawl silently on my tummy sometimes up to 50 yards until I have a clean shot.

Cheers!

 

[babsbag]

I have never been to Baum lake but I know the general area it is in.We have been here about 8 years and haven't really done much camping. Goats have kinda taken over my life and now I am building a dairy.

I wonder if goats would eat eucalyptus? I always wondered why there were so many trees planted here. I used to live in Fairfield and they had 100s of them lining I-80 and it was just so naked looking when they took them all out to make way for more road. I know they grow fast but DH won't let me plant any as they do burn HOT and we are already in fire prone country; no need to add to the native fuel. I wonder too if they planted the wrong variety of tree, that often happens with some well meaning import. I would love to have some growing here to harvest for firewood.

That is a lot of fencing. Are you getting the 2x4 no climb or the 4x4 sheep and goat? I have a little of both and it seems the coyotes were going over both quite regularly until we put in the hot wire. Zareba has a new charger that is a 2 joule and will run off a 12v battery. Ours is a 1 joule DC and it has a bite. (Ask me how I know) We use a solar panel to keep the battery charged. I can't even imagine what a 2 joule one feels like to touch. We have no power in some of the areas so this charger works well for us.

We use the Zareba poly wire. We tried a more inexpensive wire and it started to rot after a year. This wire has been installed for at least 4 years and it is still doing well. The metal wire is a lot harder to install but you might think about that on the bottom so if you end up using a weed eater to clear the fence you won't cut the wire. I also hear that it is a better conductor.

One little trick I wish I had learned a few years ago is using those step in fiberglass poles in places that I need to go around a tree or if there is a slight dip in the ground. You can also use electrical strip ties to wire these to the woven wire and make the hot wire taller. I did that in an area where I was afriad my LGD was going to go over the fence to engage a neighbor's dog that kept charging my fence line.

Good luck with the fencing project. I am looking at buying 16 acres and the thought of fencing all of that is daunting.