greybeard
Herd Master
Coyote?
open sights, 7.62x39 or Weatherby .270 with a Busnell Banner 4x12. I sleep well at night, because I and my neighbors got rid of them. We got tired of running them back and forth on to each other's property.
BEST COYOTE KILLER BREEDS - SUGGESTIONS!
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open sights, 7.62x39 or Weatherby .270 with a Busnell Banner 4x12. I sleep well at night, because I and my neighbors got rid of them. We got tired of running them back and forth on to each other's property.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
We are also within the city limits and are not allowed to fire weapons. However, in defense of yourselves or your livestock it is permissible. Considering how far a bullet can travel you better hit what you aim at and know what is in the line of fire if you miss. If you order a large coyote size Havahart trap, you can trap a coyote with a dead chicken in it for bait. A .22 caliber rifle or pistol will put it down quietly once trapped. Lock up your own dogs though since we tried this method and caught our own LGD the first day! LOL
The Rhodesian Ridgeback is an excellent dog bred to hunt and kill lions in Africa (former Rhodesia). It is not a Livestock Guardian Dog, but rather a type of hunting dog that follows the scent of it prey and then brings it down. They are (were)used in a pack to hunt and kill lions, leopards, and other large predators in Africa. I believe they have been used to some extent here on mountain lion and possibly wild hogs. They are not a Livestock Guardian Dog like the Pyr, Anatolian, Akbash, etc. I would not recommend keeping hunting dogs in with my flock hoping they will kill the coyotes since they might decide to chase the sheep if they are bored. Also some herding dogs need to be kept away from running with the flock since they have been known to work the sheep by themselves just for fun, leading to sheep that cannot graze in peace and lose weight. Irish Wolfhounds and Borzois were originally used to hunt wolves but it was long in the past and most present members of those breeds are more likely to be couch potatoes. One wolfhound breeder told me that Irish Wolfhounds are not even good house guardians. Our neighbors have Borzois and they say their dogs prefer to lay around inside rather than chasing even a rabbit. Hunting dogs have to be trained to follow the scent you want them to hunt. Bird dogs are trained to ignore rabbits and deer when scenting birds. Hounds are trained to follow the scent of the game they are to hunt and ignore other scent.
If you have 1 or 2 LGDs and coyotes are still getting in and killing your stock, you are under dogged. Take a close look at your property terrain, and walk your fences to find where predators may be getting in and hiding. Are the predators luring your guardians away and then slipping in to kill while they are out of the way on the other side of the property? This happened to us on 5 fenced acres with 2 Anatolians. An influx of coyote packs after fire season tripled our predator load. Because of the terrain our 2 dogs were unable to protect our sheep when they were left out to graze at night. Our 2 dogs were exhausted working day and night. After losing 2 lambs (which were killed but not eaten since our dogs got to them right after the kill) we started locking the sheep up at night again and also added another dog.
Changing our shepherding practices and adding a 3rd Anatolian should do the trick - we have not lost any more animals. With the rain we have gotten in southern California this year, the brush is 5' tall now right up to the fence line and on the other side allowing predators to approach closely and obscuring the dogs' sightlines. This makes it makes it hard for the dogs and they have to working harder. Locking up the sheep at night in night folds close to the house will keep the flock safe and allow the dogs to patrol around them more easily. Especially since we have 2 flocks now having separated the ewes with the rams for breeding.
LGD breeds deter predators by their size and ferocity while living with the flock or herd. Except in areas that are home to packs of wolves, 4 guardian dogs are usually enough, even against cougar and bear. Most predators won't come after prey if there is a large barking LGD defending the flock. Predators do not have HMOs and cannot afford to become injured. An injury in the wild b=means death. Usually they will avoid the protected flock for easier pickings down the block. Wolf packs are a different story. In areas where wolves have been reintroduced in the US, or in Canada where they were never eradicated, you need a much larger pack of LGDs since some wolf packs number up to 20. Also wolves are much larger than most coyotes (which only range in size from 35 to 65 lbs, depending on their territorial range). Wolves are the reason most LGDs are so large.
Hope this helps.
The Rhodesian Ridgeback is an excellent dog bred to hunt and kill lions in Africa (former Rhodesia). It is not a Livestock Guardian Dog, but rather a type of hunting dog that follows the scent of it prey and then brings it down. They are (were)used in a pack to hunt and kill lions, leopards, and other large predators in Africa. I believe they have been used to some extent here on mountain lion and possibly wild hogs. They are not a Livestock Guardian Dog like the Pyr, Anatolian, Akbash, etc. I would not recommend keeping hunting dogs in with my flock hoping they will kill the coyotes since they might decide to chase the sheep if they are bored. Also some herding dogs need to be kept away from running with the flock since they have been known to work the sheep by themselves just for fun, leading to sheep that cannot graze in peace and lose weight. Irish Wolfhounds and Borzois were originally used to hunt wolves but it was long in the past and most present members of those breeds are more likely to be couch potatoes. One wolfhound breeder told me that Irish Wolfhounds are not even good house guardians. Our neighbors have Borzois and they say their dogs prefer to lay around inside rather than chasing even a rabbit. Hunting dogs have to be trained to follow the scent you want them to hunt. Bird dogs are trained to ignore rabbits and deer when scenting birds. Hounds are trained to follow the scent of the game they are to hunt and ignore other scent.
If you have 1 or 2 LGDs and coyotes are still getting in and killing your stock, you are under dogged. Take a close look at your property terrain, and walk your fences to find where predators may be getting in and hiding. Are the predators luring your guardians away and then slipping in to kill while they are out of the way on the other side of the property? This happened to us on 5 fenced acres with 2 Anatolians. An influx of coyote packs after fire season tripled our predator load. Because of the terrain our 2 dogs were unable to protect our sheep when they were left out to graze at night. Our 2 dogs were exhausted working day and night. After losing 2 lambs (which were killed but not eaten since our dogs got to them right after the kill) we started locking the sheep up at night again and also added another dog.
Changing our shepherding practices and adding a 3rd Anatolian should do the trick - we have not lost any more animals. With the rain we have gotten in southern California this year, the brush is 5' tall now right up to the fence line and on the other side allowing predators to approach closely and obscuring the dogs' sightlines. This makes it makes it hard for the dogs and they have to working harder. Locking up the sheep at night in night folds close to the house will keep the flock safe and allow the dogs to patrol around them more easily. Especially since we have 2 flocks now having separated the ewes with the rams for breeding.
LGD breeds deter predators by their size and ferocity while living with the flock or herd. Except in areas that are home to packs of wolves, 4 guardian dogs are usually enough, even against cougar and bear. Most predators won't come after prey if there is a large barking LGD defending the flock. Predators do not have HMOs and cannot afford to become injured. An injury in the wild b=means death. Usually they will avoid the protected flock for easier pickings down the block. Wolf packs are a different story. In areas where wolves have been reintroduced in the US, or in Canada where they were never eradicated, you need a much larger pack of LGDs since some wolf packs number up to 20. Also wolves are much larger than most coyotes (which only range in size from 35 to 65 lbs, depending on their territorial range). Wolves are the reason most LGDs are so large.
Hope this helps.
YourRabbitGirl
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I would worry about the rabbits too. good luck on keeping them safe.. Its difficult to take care of animals these past few days.
YourRabbitGirl
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That Australian Cattle Dog looks so nice... And it looks very dependable, I hope someone here can send me a pup.. hahaha!! I will take care of it will all my heart.I'd go with Australian Cattle Dog
(Not my pic)
They are very fiesty, willing to kill anything (Though ours leave the chickens, pigeons, geese, ducks, and goats alone. But not the pig or ferrets. They HATE them. XD They wouldn't KILL them but the girl hates the 2 of them, since they aren't scared of her.. lol) ours will go after moose, they are very fast, and extremely intellegient and loyal dogs. Personally for coyotes I'd trust ours. We have a male whose strong (though not very agile), and could go after a small wolf - large coyote, and our female is very growly-I'm-the-boss-likeness and would def. be able to kill a coyote, and let alone catch it.
ETA ;;
They also are good herding dogs, and usually weigh (girls) 30lbs, and males anywhere from 30lbs - 60 lbs. (60lbs if fat, ours is fat but he's stocky and sturdy). So they're somewhat small but good dogs and almost all you can find is working dogs.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
The premise that LGDs are used as predator killers is to misunderstand their correct use. LGDs are not predator hunters. LGDs will kill predators when necessary, BUT usually it is not necessary in a fenced or enclosed flock/herd situation which is what the majority of smallholders have.
First, it is necessary to understand how the LGD is designed to protect his flock, and how he, she, or they go about doing it. Most LDGs are very large, powerful dogs. A normal size LGD is much larger than a normal coyote and outweighs the coyote by 2 to 3 times their weight. The size alone is intimidating to most predators. LGDs protect their charges by setting up a flock perimeter, marking it with urine, and patrolling it frequently. Barking is the method by which the LGD announces to the surrounding predators that he is in charge of his territory and protecting it. The barking does not always take place when the dog sees a predator. LGDs bark at different times during the day and night to remind predators that they are on the job. It is the LGD equivalent of posting "No Trespassing" signs.
Second, it is necessary to understand that wild predators are stealth hunters and are not willing to risk injury to obtain a kill, unless they are starving. They hunt for food and to train their offspring. Injury to a predator can lead to death through either infection or starvation while they are unable to hunt due to the injury. If your livestock is guarded sufficiently by the required number of LGDs for your predator load, predators will avoid your livestock and go to another property that has no protection. It is not necessary to kill the surrounding predators to accomplish this since new predators will move in to fill the vacuum created by that eradication. (This paragraph does not address domestic dog packs - they are another issue.)
Third, if you have an LGD (LGDs) and continue to have predator attacks, it is time to reevaluate your predator load and ranching practices. Maybe the predator load has increased (due to the fires a couple of years ago our predator load increased 5X), or your area and terrain has changed, or your LGDs have gotten too old or are disabled. Have you increased the amount of acres your flock is allowed to graze? Are you lambing in open range without allow your dogs sufficient access? Has your flock been moved onto new terrain where there is more predator cover and the dogs have not had enough time to clean the area out? Do you have enough dogs to protect the acreage and number of animals?
Bringing in LGDs and expecting your dogs to "kill" all the predators that you see is unrealistic. Your dogs will not go after predators that are not a danger to their flock. You don't want your LGDs to do that anyway since you do not want injuries to your LGDs either. Aside from vet bills, you will not want the LGDs to be off work and unable to guard due to their injuries. LGDs use common sense in protection - they do not attack animals they do not have to. On the other hand, predators that insist on attacking the flock in spite of your LGD's warnings will suffer injuries or death from your LGDs.
The main results you want from your LGDs are not the complete absence of all predators from your surrounding areas, but the fact that you have not suffered any losses to your own flocks.
To determine if your LGDs are doing their jobs properly ask yourself if you have you lost any livestock. If the answer is "NO", they are working. Just because you see a lot of coyotes around your property means nothing. If your neighbors have lost livestock and you still have not, it shows how well your dogs are working. If you are losing livestock, refer back to Number 3 above.
First, it is necessary to understand how the LGD is designed to protect his flock, and how he, she, or they go about doing it. Most LDGs are very large, powerful dogs. A normal size LGD is much larger than a normal coyote and outweighs the coyote by 2 to 3 times their weight. The size alone is intimidating to most predators. LGDs protect their charges by setting up a flock perimeter, marking it with urine, and patrolling it frequently. Barking is the method by which the LGD announces to the surrounding predators that he is in charge of his territory and protecting it. The barking does not always take place when the dog sees a predator. LGDs bark at different times during the day and night to remind predators that they are on the job. It is the LGD equivalent of posting "No Trespassing" signs.
Second, it is necessary to understand that wild predators are stealth hunters and are not willing to risk injury to obtain a kill, unless they are starving. They hunt for food and to train their offspring. Injury to a predator can lead to death through either infection or starvation while they are unable to hunt due to the injury. If your livestock is guarded sufficiently by the required number of LGDs for your predator load, predators will avoid your livestock and go to another property that has no protection. It is not necessary to kill the surrounding predators to accomplish this since new predators will move in to fill the vacuum created by that eradication. (This paragraph does not address domestic dog packs - they are another issue.)
Third, if you have an LGD (LGDs) and continue to have predator attacks, it is time to reevaluate your predator load and ranching practices. Maybe the predator load has increased (due to the fires a couple of years ago our predator load increased 5X), or your area and terrain has changed, or your LGDs have gotten too old or are disabled. Have you increased the amount of acres your flock is allowed to graze? Are you lambing in open range without allow your dogs sufficient access? Has your flock been moved onto new terrain where there is more predator cover and the dogs have not had enough time to clean the area out? Do you have enough dogs to protect the acreage and number of animals?
Bringing in LGDs and expecting your dogs to "kill" all the predators that you see is unrealistic. Your dogs will not go after predators that are not a danger to their flock. You don't want your LGDs to do that anyway since you do not want injuries to your LGDs either. Aside from vet bills, you will not want the LGDs to be off work and unable to guard due to their injuries. LGDs use common sense in protection - they do not attack animals they do not have to. On the other hand, predators that insist on attacking the flock in spite of your LGD's warnings will suffer injuries or death from your LGDs.
The main results you want from your LGDs are not the complete absence of all predators from your surrounding areas, but the fact that you have not suffered any losses to your own flocks.
To determine if your LGDs are doing their jobs properly ask yourself if you have you lost any livestock. If the answer is "NO", they are working. Just because you see a lot of coyotes around your property means nothing. If your neighbors have lost livestock and you still have not, it shows how well your dogs are working. If you are losing livestock, refer back to Number 3 above.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
By the way, bringing in wolfhounds will not be effective. Sight hounds have to be trained to track and chase the correct kind of prey. Wolfhounds, whether Russian, Irish, or otherwise, have not chased wolves in hundreds of years. Your neighbor's best bet is either a rifle, if hunting is allowed in your zoning, or baited traps and a .22 once they are caught. However, remember that once you eradicate the resident packs, surrounding packs will produce more pups that will move into the territory.
Baymule
Herd Master
Case in point; we have 2 Great Pyrenees, 1 Great Dane/Black Labrador (farm dog) and an Anatolian puppy. We have sheep, never had losses.
A neighbor a mile away has goats with guard donkeys. A cougar killed five goats one night about 4 months ago. It was heard close to our property several times after that, screaming. Our dogs were going nuts, the cougar moved on.
A neighbor a mile away has goats with guard donkeys. A cougar killed five goats one night about 4 months ago. It was heard close to our property several times after that, screaming. Our dogs were going nuts, the cougar moved on.
YourRabbitGirl
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Some of the dogs which can easily kill a coyote include, Caucasian Ovcharka, Central Asian Shepherd, Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, Sarplainic, Black Russian Terrier, Komodor, Neopolitan Mastiff, Cane Corso, American Bulldog, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Akita, Rottweiler, Presa De Canario, Dogo Argentino,I'd go with Australian Cattle Dog
(Not my pic)
They are very fiesty, willing to kill anything (Though ours leave the chickens, pigeons, geese, ducks, and goats alone. But not the pig or ferrets. They HATE them. XD They wouldn't KILL them but the girl hates the 2 of them, since they aren't scared of her.. lol) ours will go after moose, they are very fast, and extremely intellegient and loyal dogs. Personally for coyotes I'd trust ours. We have a male whose strong (though not very agile), and could go after a small wolf - large coyote, and our female is very growly-I'm-the-boss-likeness and would def. be able to kill a coyote, and let alone catch it.
ETA ;;
They also are good herding dogs, and usually weigh (girls) 30lbs, and males anywhere from 30lbs - 60 lbs. (60lbs if fat, ours is fat but he's stocky and sturdy). So they're somewhat small but good dogs and almost all you can find is working dogs.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
Australian Cattle Dpgs are very tough. I have heard that they are harder on sheep though since they are bred for working cattle which need a tougher dog who is not gentle.
They are great farm dogs though and like you said are game for anything. We had an Australian Shepherd X Cattle dog cross years ago, and he was super aggressive towards neighbor dogs and coyotes coming in after our animals. I got him for the children from a friend who was giving away the pups. He was great - super sharp, easily trained and a tough little guy. Sadly he was poisoned, we think by a neighbor who was putting out poison bait for rodents, etc. We don't know how he got hold of it, and our vet worked on him for days but no use.
They are great farm dogs though and like you said are game for anything. We had an Australian Shepherd X Cattle dog cross years ago, and he was super aggressive towards neighbor dogs and coyotes coming in after our animals. I got him for the children from a friend who was giving away the pups. He was great - super sharp, easily trained and a tough little guy. Sadly he was poisoned, we think by a neighbor who was putting out poison bait for rodents, etc. We don't know how he got hold of it, and our vet worked on him for days but no use.
Jeff n Jenny
Overrun with beasties
Howdy!
I have a coyote problem too. We have 70A at the end of the road which backs up into about 10-square miles of wooded wilderness. One challenge for us is that a good guard dog might get into the backcountry and kill a neighbor's dog. We also like to watch (and eat) the deer, wild hogs, etc. So, no dogs yet.
I don't want a dog limited by fence perimeter. I don't want predators that close.
However, the Akbash is an interesting consideration for us.
I have had good luck with traps, and a 22.250 if I see them first.
But several times Jenny has seen one come out of the woods and took off after like some mean momma.
Coyotes are cowards! But they're the sneakiest of cowards.
Coyotes are very smart. They will watch and stalk and learn when, where, and how to succeed.
The Akbash is a strong-willed, independent dog. They need an owner who has some dog experience.
Let us know how this unfolds. Where about are you in NC?
