Birthing Questions

[Calendula]

Hello, everyone! It's been a while since I've been on.
Anyway, our doe - Daphne - who is a year and a half old went to get bred so hopefully, we'll have March or April babies!
I just have a few questions regarding the setup that we should have for her along with maybe signs, necessary birthing items, etc...
The breeder that we got her from has already been a big help and gave us a wealth of information from the internet, but I like to get as many views as possible.

So first off, for her kidding pen, would it be fine if she was completely cutoff from the other goats? I originally wanted to have some kind of setup so that our wether could be in an adjacent pen since the two of them were raised together and are rather close. I figured being completely alone in a strange stall might make her more stressed out, and of course I want to make this as stress-free as possible for her, so I figured if I somehow made it so that our wether, Stanley, could be with her, it might be helpful.
Of course, I don't want him to have access to her in case he panics and headbutts her or something along those lines. (I don't think he would -- he's a sweetheart -- but still.)

Anyway, opinions and thoughts?

Also, is there anything I should be feeding her? As it is, I cut all my goats off of grain since they it didn't seem they really needed it and I didn't want the risk of kidney stones in my wethers (which I read could happen), but I'm planning on probably giving her some during the pregnancy and then while we milk her.
Opinions on thoughts on the feed as well, please!

 

[Southern by choice]

No feed is necessary. You do not want her getting fat during pregnancy and the kids getting too big. First Fresheners often have singles and you do not want a huge single. Hay and forage should be fine.
As long as she is in good condition. Some do start giving feed the last week or two before kidding. When you start milking she will do best with some feed as well as a higher protein hay. Takes protein to make milk.

As far as the stall... you can set the wether up beside her. We don't put ours in a stall (generally) until they are actually in labor. Depending on the goat we might put them in a stall overnight when they enter the 145 day mark but let them out in the day. Of course it doesn't always work out. Goats are goats. Last year we had a doe that had her ligs, checked her that night, so signs and in the am we came out to 2 on the ground 1 just born and she was getting the sack off and then she plopped out the 3rd. Many of our goats go quick...
Usually there are no real issues even from the "bullyish" goats.
Kind of like they respect the space for the doe kidding... they all just move out of the way.

 

[OneFineAcre]

We put ours in a stall when we feel the ligaments soften, which would indicate they would kid within 24 hours. But, our stalls aren't completely cut off from everyone, and you are right it might stress her out.
We have put some in stalls before and they seemed stressed, so move them out and they had the babies in the yard.
We then moved mom and babies to a stall.

We don't change our feed regimen much when ours are pregnant.
We give ours a small amount of feed all of the time. They then get a little extra when they are in milk on the milk stand.
It works for us.

 

[madcow]

She will most likely separate herself on her own the day of kidding, and if you notice that she does stay away from the others when you know she's due to deliver, then that's a positive sign she is ready to kid. As the other members above have stated, she will probably kid when you least expect it and miss getting her in a pen before the fact, but it isn't a bad idea to give her a place where she doesn't have to be concerned about anything other than birthing. She probably won't want or care about the wether she's been close to in the past during her kidding process. She's gonna be distracted and concentrating on the task at hand. It is a very good idea to separate her and her kids from the rest of the herd for a few days after birth so that the doe and her kids have a chance to bond and it will protect the kids from other herd members who might be a little zealous in asserting their dominance at the kids' most fragile time as newborns.

The main thing I can say you need to be aware of is making sure that the babies nurse fairly quickly once born, usually within an hour after birth as they have very little reserve and need some milk/colostrum to get and keep them going for a bit. Keep an eye on them for the first 24 hours to be sure they seem like they are getting milk. You can tell if their tummies feel full by feel and observation. They will have sunken looking sides, hump themselves up to conserve body heat and shiver or become lethargic, if it's cold, and they aren't getting enough to eat. They will rarely nurse very long at a time, but they will nurse really often. Everything is new to them and it takes them a few days to remember which end and where to nurse, but the instinct to nurse is very strong and they will try with all their might and persistence a little one has to get to the teat.

Keep in mind since this is her first freshening she isn't going to have a clue as to what is going on with her while she's in labor and during the delivery. Her body will take over for the most part for the delivery, unless she has problems with a malpositioned kid or one that is too large, in which case you will most likely need to assist her. Once you know her bag of water has broken it's imperative that she deliver the first kid within 30 to 45 minutes. If she doesn't you will need to check with a gloved hand for dilation and the presence of kid body parts and its position. If you can assist by repositioning the presenting kid or help with delivering a large kid do so. If you feel it's beyond your assistance it would be time to call in a vet. Anything longer than 30 minutes after the bag has broken and no delivery you are at high risk for losing the kid. That would also be time to call in the vet to assist.

Keep in mind that goats are a lot like people, some are naturally good mothers, others not so much. As a FF she might not recognize the first kid as hers and she might not want anything to do with it at first, especially since she knows that little, wiggly, wet thing has just caused her all that pain. She probably won't understand what has happened to her at first. She might even attempt to clean it up, in which case you can help do that. But keep in mind that most goats figure out the whole first kid thing quickly and take their momma duties seriously at that point. You know she's gotten it figured out when she starts doing momma calls to her baby over and over, especially if it gets too far away from her or she thinks it's lost. Again, there are those very few does who don't want anything to do with the kids. In that case you've got yourself a bottle baby. We don't keep does that aren't good mothers, because they will almost always be bad mothers from there on out, but we do give them 2 kiddings to get the hang of it.

I would have Pritchard red nipples and a couple of empty, clean 16-ounce soda bottles on hand to feed the little ones if momma looks like she doesn't have any milk. You can usually tell within a few hours after birth if she is making any milk by observing the kid for the above signs of a full tummy or not. If you can get your hands on some colostrum from another goat owner that stuff works like magic on newborn kids. Amazing stuff. Try to milk out some and save some from this kidding for future kiddings. It will last longer than a year in the freezer in a sealed canning jar.

As far as feeding her, I would give her some feed daily during the last month of pregnancy when the kid(s) are putting the most demand on her body, but be cautious with it, because if you overfeed her the extra all goes to the kid(s) and will make them larger at birth, which could cause problems with birthing. Of course give her extra hay and feed while she's in milk, or she will get too thin and the babies won't gain weight quickly enough.

Hope this little bit of first/new mother goat psychology has helped ease your fears a bit. She will most likely do great and so will you!

 

[Calendula]

Well, I need to write all this stuff down to go over and remember for when the time finally comes! Haha.

Thanks, everyone. You guys have made me feel a bit better.... I'm fairly certain that if she does have the kids in the pen with everyone else, there won't be any problems since she's the big goat around and everyone is, well, kind of scared of her. Other than the wether, of course, but he's fairly laidback.
I still want her separated since our barn isn't very warm and being in Michigan, I don't really want any kids being born out in the cold and then being out there for who knows how long with me being busy at college before I can come and check...
I think I'll set up something so the wether is next to her and put her in after the 145 days, or when her ligaments drop. I guess I have five months to decide that!
And thanks for the grain advice! I will definitely make sure that she doesn't get any until after the kidding. She's already a bit on the small side (well, maybe not), so I would rather reduce any risks of making this more dangerous! Although, putting her back on shortly before she gives birth also sounds like a good idea...
I'll talk it over with my parents tomorrow and then we can decide. Thanks, again!

Oh! One last question: I would like to remove the kids to bottle raise them, but I've read around and sort of have thought about leaving them with her for a week or two until she was done with colostrum. Any opinions? What do you guys do when it comes to kids?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Personally I like to take them before the dam ever sees them. This is less stressful on both dam and kids. Either way they are going to get their colostrum. After you pull the kids you are still going to have to milk her regardless. I have bottle raised ~20 kids so far and I can tell you everything is soooooooooo much smoother when the doe never gets to look at the kid. The doe accepts milking much better and the kids take the bottle in no time. Goat kids are funny about what teat they use, it can be very difficult for a kid to transition to an artificial teat.

After you leave the kid on for a week and then pull it you are going to be dealing with a heck of a lot of screaming. The kid may or may not take the bottle and the doe will probably give you heck when it come to milking time. This really causes unnecessary stress. I'm a sucker when it come to a crying goats, I can't stand it

When you pull the kid right away the doe will bond with you.

On the other hand, I know an alpine breeder that leaves the kids on the dam for 3 days then puts them on a trough system. They are a big breeder though and have LOTS of kids. When it comes to small-scale pulling ASAP is the way to go

 

[Calendula]

Ok! I'm perfectly fine with that since the five goats we have so far, we got as bottle babies and I was planning on making them bottle babies as well!

The biggest thing I'm worried about is the screaming.... I won't be able to stand listening to her cry for her kids and would probably cave and give them back. So I will keep that in mind!
I was just worried because I know for the first few days, colostrum is super important, so I would want them to be drinking it as much as possible, but I suppose getting fed with bottles a few times a day would be plenty! Thanks.

 

[Southern by choice]

Thought you might like this article- It is all about colostrum.
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/#!colostrum/cpti

 

[Calendula]

Oh! Perfect, thank you so much.
I forgot how nice and helpful everyone was on here.

Ok, now I have a couple more questions.
How much colostrum would I be able to retain from her to freeze? Would it depend on the size of the kids (so basically how big they were) and how much she produced and then I would just freeze the extra?

Thanks for the help, everyone! I jist want to make sure my parents and I are as prepared as possible, even if the kids aren't due until early spring.

 

[Southern by choice]

Ok, now I have a couple more questions.
How much colostrum would I be able to retain from her to freeze? Would it depend on the size of the kids (so basically how big they were) and how much she produced and then I would just freeze the extra?

It would be best to re-read the article as the information is there...
there are also other links at the bottom of the page.