*!!!BLM Plans to Sterilize All Wild Horses in 2 HMA in Wyoming!!!*

[herfrds]

Looking at both sides should be done, but when someone decides they are an expert on an issue they are no where near and would rather argue what those against it post instead of reading the info provided by those affected shows they do not want to listen.

Yeah I'm the troublemaker.

 

[elevan]

I believe that the post on BYC has been deleted...it comes up as "Bad request. The link you followed is incorrect or outdated." when I refresh the page there...

herfrds- I thought you made some valid points for your side of the table.

When I said that I don't have an opinion one way or the other it is simply because it doesn't directly affect me and I have not seen first hand one side or the other. As we've all seen in topics of herd management you'll get 100 different answers when you ask 100 different people.

To me the "mustangs" are just another type of herd...they are on public land and the BLM is responsible for that land. Those are the facts that I know...everything else that I hear is conjecture because I haven't seen any of it for myself...I don't form opinions on conjecture.

To the OP - Save the Mustangs - You started a thread that you knew was a hot topic with very different sides. I know that you meant well and were looking for support. Even though you asked for people who don't believe as you not to read or post that really isn't realistic...it's a public forum. I know your heart is in the right place but debate on the subject is GOOD EVEN FOR YOUR SIDE OF THE TABLE. How can you expect to have people look closer at what you are trying to say if you don't allow the opposition to have their say? I think asking for this thread to be closed would be wrong...I also think that people can debate the subject in a civilized manner.

That's my 2cents.

 

[TigerLily Trail Ranch]

To me the "mustangs" are just another type of herd...they are on public land and the BLM is responsible for that land. Those are the facts that I know...everything else that I hear is conjecture because I haven't seen any of it for myself...I don't form opinions on conjecture.

To the OP - Save the Mustangs - You started a thread that you knew was a hot topic with very different sides. I know that you meant well and were looking for support. Even though you asked for people who don't believe as you not to read or post that really isn't realistic...it's a public forum. I know your heart is in the right place but debate on the subject is GOOD EVEN FOR YOUR SIDE OF THE TABLE. How can you expect to have people look closer at what you are trying to say if you don't allow the opposition to have their say? I think asking for this thread to be closed would be wrong...I also think that people can debate the subject in a civilized manner.

That's my 2cents.

I would go into detail about the difference between wild & feral horses & the genetics involved but that would require posting links to sites that are most likely not allowed on here.

I understand this is a public forum but what im saying is that if you dont like what someone has to say dont post it or PM about it out of respect for not just me but any OP really. No one makes you post what you type.

Its not that I dont want people to not state their opinion but I do not want the topic to get over heated. Like you say people can debate civilly but most decide to get really rude about it & start insulting each other. The point of starting this thread was: to alert folks who are pro mustang so they can send their message. Not open a wide debate & get off the original topic.

Im asking this thread be closed so that things do not get too out of hand & so I dont get a strike on my account. After looking back this can be considered trolling -_- . Actually I think a civil debate would be a great idea to educate people who arent familiar with this topic but its not allowed & honestly I woudnt listen cuz my opinions about the horses is firm, but for those that dont know to much about it its a great idea. Maybe there is a forum somewhere where this debate can be opened.

 

[patandchickens]

Any legitimate information on wild horse genetics should be able to be supplied by posting unobjectionable links. For instance to scientific research papers/summaries. There is no problem with doing that here.

I agree with you that it is good to discuss this. You seem to be avoiding allowing that to happen, though, by declining to post liniks to information that would back up your most crucial claims, and by wanting to shut down the thread for some reason.

I hope that you will reconsider.

P.s. just b/c a person thinks that a trial balloon of sterilization in two HMAs would be a good experiment to try does not BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION make them "anti-mustang". At all. Goodness.

Pat

 

[carolinagirl]

Im asking this thread be closed so that things do not get too out of hand & so I dont get a strike on my account. After looking back this can be considered trolling -_- . Actually I think a civil debate would be a great idea to educate people who arent familiar with this topic but its not allowed & honestly I woudnt listen cuz my opinions about the horses is firm, but for those that dont know to much about it its a great idea. Maybe there is a forum somewhere where this debate can be opened.

But see the thing is, you don't want a civil debate. You want everyone to agree with you and that's not going to happen on ANY forum you post this one. as soon as the first person said anything even slightly against your stance, you called us all childish for wanting to read what was said on the other site. Name calling is really not the best way for you to make a point, don't you agree? When people are attacked, they tend to not want to listen too well.

The point is, that even though mustangs have been wild in this country for many years, they are NOT a native species. The only true native horse that lived in the united states was Equus francisci, the "stilt legged horse" and it died out over 10,000 years ago. The mustangs are descendants of horses brought here by the Spaniards in 1493. so yes, they have been here a long time and are part of the history the American West, but they are NOT a native species. Out-of-control breeding of ANY non-native species can be detrimental to the environment. No one is proposing rounding them all up and shooting them, just controlling the birth rate in a few regions. I see no harm in that.

I am sure that opinion does not sit well with you since you have already stated you don't want to listen to opposing views, that I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are. Sorry..that's just the way it works.

 

[treeclimber233]

I wonder if just giving the stallions a vasectomy would be enough to solve the problem? Not gelding him....just snip snip. They'd would still act like stallions, they just be sterile. Seems like spaying a mare would be terribly invasive though. And gelding a stallion would change his whole attitude and could bring about chaos in the wild herd. I know of some Anatolian shepherd breeders/owners that choose vasectomy over neutering so the dog retains the characteristics they want in the dog.

I read through the thread at BYC....pretty ugly. I can see both sides having valid points.

I have heard that letting a gelding that "acts like a stallion" (mounting) run with mares is not a good idea because infections can occur in the mare. Breeders wash stallions genitals before breeding mares. Have you ever seen a horse penis that has not been cleaned? All the skin cells that are shed accumulate inside the sheath and the penis will get very gunky over time. If the stallions are only snipped they will not be able to settle the mares and will be breeding all the time. Very taxing on any stallion. Not to mention all the fighting to keep other stallions from stealing the mares. Has anyone kept tabs on the Cloud Foundation mustangs? The last show I saw mentioned that predators are killing almost all the new foals. They also mentioned a shot that had been given to some of the mares that kept them from getting pregnant for at least 5 years. I am sure that rounding up horses to give them a shot is very expensive but that is better than sterilizing them permanently. Just my 2 cents.

 

[patandchickens]

I wonder if just giving the stallions a vasectomy would be enough to solve the problem?

I have heard that letting a gelding that "acts like a stallion" (mounting) run with mares is not a good idea because infections can occur in the mare. Breeders wash stallions genitals before breeding mares. Have you ever seen a horse penis that has not been cleaned?

Yes but in wild horses how is that any different than what actual fertile stallions experience? It's not like they have anyone cleaning THEIR personal bits before covering a mare EITHER

Not to mention all the fighting to keep other stallions from stealing the mares

Again, how is this different when they are fertile vs vasectomised? I don't see the difference.

If the stallions are only snipped they will not be able to settle the mares and will be breeding all the time. Very taxing on any stallion.

It is not like there is no downside at all... though I would say that by far the biggest downside would be the expense (for humans) and the stress of being rounded up and surgically neutered (for the horses). The question though is how do the pros and cons balance out. You got to look at BOTH sides of the equation.

Pat

 

[carolinagirl]

I see this as maybe taxing on the poor stallion that try as he might, he can't impregnate a mare, but think of all the mares who will no longer be taxed by having to carry a foal every year.

 

[rockdoveranch]

I decided to remove my post.

 

[mydakota]

I woudnt listen cuz my opinions about the horses is firm, but for those that dont know to much about it its a great idea. Maybe there is a forum somewhere where this debate can be opened.

Do you see that that is the very definition of a closed mind? Goodness.

I am NOT anti-mustang. I sincerely hope that there are ALWAYS free roaming herds in the West. My best friend and riding buddy has two that are adopted from Nevada. They are good horses and she loves them. But the range has to be managed for ALL the animals that live there. There is only so much grass/water. They can't be unmanaged. It would be to the detriment of the other residents of the range. I live in a mustang state. I would say that the Oregon herds are some of the highest quality wild horses in existence. The BLM here does a wonderful job. (have no first hand knowledge of other states) When they do a gather? The very BEST horses get turned back out on the range. As a result, we have some very nice wild horses here. The Kiger's are here and I have walked out where they are and seen them wild in person. Very beautiful horses. South Steens and Beatty's Butte and Stinkingwater and Jackie's Butte HMA's all have very nice horses. I am definitely NOT anti-mustang. But I know how it is with resources on the range. They must be managed. The pronghorn count too. The Mule Deer count too. The sheep and goats and yes, even the cattle--all count too. Mixed use means shared resources. It has to.