boer udder discussion

[TheMixedBag]

Ok, so I personally don't raise boers (not a meat goat person, sorry!), and I've only ever had one in my life, but it's still a topic that interests me, and I wanted to get other people's opinions on it, since it does in a way relate to dairy goats.

Soon, the ABGA will be changing the rules to place 1x1 teated boers over others, both buck and doe. I personally have yet to see the reason why these changes are being made, and would like to see them.
Personally, I agree with Jack Mauldin. Boer goats are meat animals. Multiple, working teats (more than 1x1) means more kids can be fed at once, meaning more money in the long run. Boers are known for throwing multiples, and with trips or quads, it's much easier to feed them all with a 1x2 or a 2x2 teated doe.

How do I think it relates to the ADGA and other breed registries (well heck, for any animal-look at the AQHA)? What's popular seems to be what wins most, and what the standard is changed to. Often times, the standards are written because someone thinks it makes the animal look better, not because it improves performance (or at least, that's my opinion-some of the things the ADGA wants are pretty...um...questionable).

What I want to know is what YOU prefer, and why it works best for you. It might also be interesting to discuss standards that you don't agree with that seem to be a bit more low-key. I like my dairy goats, I'd like them to show well, but their performance is more important to me, and if the ADGA standard is all I have to go on, I'm going to need more insight.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Soon, the ABGA will be changing the rules to place 1x1 teated boers over others, both buck and doe. I personally have yet to see the reason why these changes are being made, and would like to see them.
Personally, I agree with Jack Mauldin. Boer goats are meat animals. Multiple, working teats (more than 1x1) means more kids can be fed at once, meaning more money in the long run. Boers are known for throwing multiples, and with trips or quads, it's much easier to feed them all with a 1x2 or a 2x2 teated doe.

.

I don't have boers either, but I'm skeptical that additional teats (even working ones) would be all that helpful. All four kids don't need to eat at the same time to get adequate nutrition. There are still just two halves to the udder regardless of how many teats, right? And boers have smallish udders anyway, so how could three or four giant headed kids fit under there to nurse at the same time? It almost seems like if a person was raising meat goats capable of feeding multiples they'd want to be more concerned with milk production than the number of teats... 2 teats or 6 won't make any difference in the production capability.

JMO- I don't have meat goats so I'd never really thought about it until now.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I wonder if it is possible to consistantly produce good teated 2x2 animals or if you end up with a lot of non-functional extra teats and fish teats.

dealing with a doe with non-functional teats is a hassle.

 

[TheMixedBag]

I guess I figure with multiple working teats, all the kids could nurse without fighting (much...) and get at least a fair share, without one being shoved off and getting what's left.

I've also seen plenty of boer does with ginourmous udders (I mean dragging the ground almost beach ball sized), and the upper teats (the "additional" teats) were the ones that were easiest to reach.

Also, as far as I know, if a doe has multiple functional teats, she's probably more likely to throw multiple functional teats. Multi-teated does are natural in boers, it's the 1x1 that's uncommon (at least, for the South African lines).

I found the video Jack Mauldin made making his case for why he raises the multi-teated does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DndvgEbtHww

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

"upper teats"? I had imagined all the teats would basically be where they should be, just a couple extra... I'd better look up boer udders! I guess if one was sticking off the side or something she could fit an extra kid on there. But still, "what's left" should be plenty if she's producing enough milk for multiples I would think. No?

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Eeeww! Ok, I looked at pictures and I see what you mean... It IS sticking off the side. Yeah I guess an extra kid might fit on there.

I've also seen plenty of boer does with ginourmous udders (I mean dragging the ground almost beach ball sized), and the upper teats (the "additional" teats) were the ones that were easiest to reach.

This might be a dairy perspective, but if her teats are dragging the ground why not breed for better attachment rather than for extra teats on the lateral part of the udder? Even if a poorly attached udder has an extra teat the kid can reach and it doesn't inhibit feeding, there is still a greater risk of injury to the doe. Seems like that might affect your bottom line eventually.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

Well, I don't breed boers but in my opinion, they should place 2 teated goats above others. Yes, they are meat goats, but they have to be good milkers to nurse fast growing babies. Supernumeraries aren't always functional, and if they're not functional they can harm a kid. Sometimes newborn kids latch on to a non functioning teat and never do learn to properly nurse off of a functioning teat. And like someone else said, I'm sorry but I don't see a doe having the room to nurse 4 babies at once. Goats are supposed to have 2 teats, not 4. Cows are supposed to have 4 teats, not 6. I've worked on cattle farms where the cows have extras. I just don't like it.

Now, not everyone registers their goats, especially people who are raising commercial meat herds. It's probably not a large issue with them, but I personally wouldn't keep an animal w/ more than 2 unless it was a pet or family milker. I had a ewe lamb born w/ 4 teats this spring. The owner of the ram said, "Oh yeah, we get those all the time!" :/ I didn't keep her because I personally don't want sheep with 4 teats...they're supposed to have 2.

 

[Roll farms]

I have been *trying* to breed for 2 teats (1x1) in our Boer herd for years, probably because of my dairy goat beginnings....extra teats are just *wrong* to me, even though I know it (has been) is ok w/ Boers.

I've had many 4 teated does. I have seen does w/ up to 7 teats.

Very few of the 4 teated does I've milked have had functioning extras...most are just dead tissue. I call them udder wattles.

I don't know HOW many people I've had say to me, "Well, you can always cut them off." when I've lamented that there were extra teats on a doeling I would have otherwise kept.

Yes, I could cut them off and not see them....but...that doesn't fix the genetics.

I have kept some 4 teated kids (Dallas being one) because of other qualities they have that I want / like....and I'm hoping to 'fix' the teats on their kids.
I'm hoping her extra teats don't function, as I intend to milk her.

IMHO....Extra non-functioning teats probably kill as many kids as extra functioning teats "save"....a kid latches on and starves (no milk) and the unobservant producer will lose the kid.

I think all of the "They can feed extra kids." ...um...opinions...are just a way to excuse a flaw.

2 teated dairy does can raise triplets...why couldn't a 2 teated boer (if she had enough milk)?

I've seen retired show (but still being bred) boer does w/ nasty-huge udders, I mean dragging the ground-huge. Kids can barely nurse b/c they can't get low enough / under the teats.
But these does make "show winner" kids...so they keep on breeding them.
It doesn't matter how many teats the doe has...dragging the ground, nobody's nursing any of them.
Her daughters may look great at 1 or 2 yrs of age...but probably won't at 7 or 8.

To me, there are 2 groups of boer breeders...those who want MEAT animals (hardy, easy to breed and kid, parasite resistant), and those who want SHOW animals....but that's for another thread...

You asked about teat opinions and there you have mine.

ETA: I think, though, that the sudden change(s) the ABGA is 'forcing' are BS....but...that's why I don't belong to the ABGA.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Well said Roll!

After I started looking at pics to see what the heck the extra teats looked like I starting seeing pics of those udders dragging the ground. I had no idea! One website had this doe with apparently big time bloodlines and her description said all her kids now had to be bottled raised because her udder was dragging and the kids couldn't get to it. As you've pointed out Roll, show herd. Now, I know udder aesthetics aren't all that important in the meat goat world, but that's an udder that's not even FUNCTIONAL. There is no possible way an extra teat or two is going to offset that kind of longevity issue, or all the extra work it takes to bottle feed kids in a herd where kids are normally dam raised.

7 teats... that is just plain weird.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I've seen retired show (but still being bred) boer does w/ nasty-huge udders, I mean dragging the ground-huge. Kids can barely nurse b/c they can't get low enough / under the teats.
But these does make "show winner" kids...so they keep on breeding them.
It doesn't matter how many teats the doe has...dragging the ground, nobody's nursing any of them.
Her daughters may look great at 1 or 2 yrs of age...but probably won't at 7 or 8.

We started out with only 2 teated, thought we researched the bloodlines far enough back, we still get 2X2, 2X3, fish-teats, non-functional teats, we try to cull most of them, or the better onse we use at the 4H meat goat show, but I have pretty much given up. I have 2 or 3 know that have multiple teats in the herd, I just got so tired of getting rid of some really nice looking girls.

I just bought a doe((6 yrs old) to produce us some show whethers and she has a horrible udder, on the ground, 1x1 teats, but poor attachment of the udder, I was nervous that she has had mastitis, but all is going well with that. But nothing like putting your self in a situation that you have to get up in the middle of the night more than one time and teach the kids how to latch on and milk her out to get some of the wieght off of it. But I am sure looking forward to seeing her kids in the 4H meat goat show.

Are you all aware that Boer goats used to have 4 teats? Ofcourse they still only have two halves to the udder.