boer udder discussion

[Roll farms]

Hmmm...I've never seen anything that said, "Boers used to have 4 teats."

I'm big on research, I'd love to see where that info is written / read up on it.

Then I *might* change / alter my opinion that "feeding extra kids" is just an excuse to explain away a flaw.

I figure someone, somewhere (maybe all the way back to Africa during the Boer's development....) saw a doe w/ 4 teats feed 3 kids, told the story enough times, and it became 'true'....

Sort of like how all goats eat tin cans and 'goats will eat anything'.

As I said, since I milk almost all my does, I've had a lot of experience milking boers...probably more than the average boer breeder...since most of the extra teats I've had experience with are blind / non producing, I would imagine that most of them everywhere are.
So...it's just an appendage w/ no purpose...NOT a benefit.


Nikki, that 7 teated doe was a FB registered Boer my sister bought for her daughter to show in 4-H. She paid 300$ for the privilege.

(You know how family can be...She wanted to 'beat my goats' and thought she could 'buy' a better one. HAHAHAHA)

When she kidded, she wouldn't take care of her kids so my sister calls me in a panic to come help her get colostrum...I grabbed an udder, squeezed...and had MILK COME OUT OF 3 ORIFICES at once.

You had to milk her into a wide bucket to catch it all.

IMHO, The breeder should have been thrown out of their organization for not only selling her as a show animal (cluster teats are a flaw), but registering that monster to begin with.

 

[helmstead]

Personally I find extra teats on any goat, meat included, to be disgusting. I agree with Roll, the statement that many breeders make that extra teats feed extra kids is nothing more than an excuse to turn a blind eye to a defect. Much in the same way that some dairy people excuse a horrific udder just because it produces lots of milk, or that ND breeders excuse grossly overheight animals because of their bloodlines, conformation or udder.

In each breeding a breeder plans, the GOAL should be to improve their breed...or to produce, in some instances, a hybred that improves on its parents and contributes to the goat community in some way.

But, in a breed like Boers, if they enforce a 2 teat rule, all they're going to get is a bunch of animals showing that have had their extra teats removed. The show world is the show world, and where there's a way to get around a fault - people WILL employ it. Doesn't do a darn thing to improve the breed.

We attended the local 4H show last year. We are in BIG TIME Boer country, with high dollar breeders and high dollar show goats. The Boer breeders here also breed a few standard dairy breeds - Obers, Nubians, and Alpines to give the 4H kids something to show in that arena. I was HORRIFIED when the junior does lined up, butts facing the crowd, and they had EXTRA TEATS and FISH TEATS. So, now, obviously the Boer breeders who think extra teats are fine and dandy are breeding dairy goats and don't see an issue with them having extra teats, either. I was so pleased when the ADGA judge who was judging moved those does to the end of the line and made a special statement about teat deformities.

Obviously, some education is needed around here.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I didn't even think you could show a fish teat animal of any breed, I thought that was disqualification and you were asked to leave the show rink.

 

[helmstead]

I didn't even think you could show a fish teat animal of any breed, I thought that was disqualification and you were asked to leave the show rink.

It wouldn't be very nice to throw a bunch of young 4H kids out of the ring, would it? But yes, at breed shows, they check every goat on the way into the ring...extra teats and fish teats, if they ever managed to get that far, would be asked to leave.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I didn't even think you could show a fish teat animal of any breed, I thought that was disqualification and you were asked to leave the show rink.

It wouldn't be very nice to throw a bunch of young 4H kids out of the ring, would it? But yes, at breed shows, they check every goat on the way into the ring...extra teats and fish teats, if they ever managed to get that far, would be asked to leave.

I see, you are referring to a 4H class of JR. Doelings, our area only offers a 4H Meat goat class for our youth, no dairy, and no breed type classes of any kind, but you can show doelings in the meat goat class up against the whethers. Ofcourse, being a meat(whether) show they don't even look at the teat count.

We have two groups of does on our farm, does that give us off-spring for the meat(whether show) and does that give us off-spring for replacement animals to be sold to other farms to be used as future breeding stock. If the line is throwing incorrect teats it ends up in the whether production group and if it consistantly throws good teat it ends up in the replacement breeding stock group. Ofcourse there are other factors to, but I am sticking to teats in this discussion.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Personally I find extra teats on any goat, meat included, to be disgusting.

Yes, but what do you REALLY think about them Kate?

I have to tell you, I was pretty well horrified when I googled it.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Maybe this is what I had read?


http://www.boergoatshome.com/genetic-goat-flaws.php


Teats: Boer goats generally have four teats. They were originally bred to raise high multiple kids, and have enough teats to take care of them. There is nothing wrong with four teats, in a Boer! (Six or eight teats are not good.) However, there is a flaw where two teats are so close together that they actually come out of the body on one base, and split at the end of the teat. This is called split teats, or fish teats (because the teat resembles a fish tail). This condition is not acceptable in the show ring, and may have some repercussions in the pasture as well. The theory suggests that either kids might not be able to get their mouth around the teat at all, or they may suck on one half of the teat while the other half drips milk into their nose.

 

[Roll farms]

So....Yeah...One person's (the author of the book that excerpt was taken from) opinion, not really historic proof that they originally had 4 teats.

(That is in no way meant to be snarky to you, 20KOH. )

All domesticated goat breeds "started" with 2 teats.

The Middle Eastern goats that have had so much influence on boers (and Nubians) are all 2 teated.

Nature says that a goat can feed 2 kids on 2 teats just fine....
Only when humans hop in and start manipulating things and breeding for increased litter size do things go awry...again, that's JMHO.

If someone discovered that (wild example...) a goat w/ an overbite (and a fancy pedigree) could 'more easily grasp brush and eat more / faster' they would probably try and tell me it's not a flaw, but a benefit....but it
doesn't make it true.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I guess I just read it somewhere and assumed it was fact, hadn't really given it a lot of thought, but I do wish the genius that decided to add extra teats to the boers would have reconsidered. I find it very annoying to have nice little doeling end up with 2 teats on one side and 3 on the other, then have to cull her. Just when I think I have a blood-line going that isn't throwing extra teats, Bam, extra teats appear.

 

[TheMixedBag]

I would think if you had a doe with well-placed multiple, functioning teats, she would throw similar, wouldn't she? I think a lot of the problem with dummy teats comes from people not caring, banding them, or just flat-out ignoring them.

I'll admit, this has been a good discussion. I do think boer breeders need to focus more on udder quality and worry about teat placement later, and it would probably stop horrific udders from popping up all over the place, and eliminating any kind of need for extra teats.

Jack Mauldin does have some videos of multi-teated does feeding 3-4 kids at once with multiple, functioning teats, however, and it worked pretty well, but then, he also makes sure that all the teats are functioning, too, which is something I don't think a lot of people do.

At any rate, I'm linking to a few things I found on a quick Google search.
http://www.jackmauldin.com/management/two_teat_question.htm
http://www.jackmauldin.com/4_teats.htm
http://www.ramhbreeders.com/clean_teat.htm
http://www.boergoat-sa.com/page6.html
http://www.boergoatshome.com/how-to-choose-meat-goats.php