Bottle Jaw

[newbiekat]

I believe I have a goat that has bottle jaw, and from what I am reading, it sounds like anemia as well, due to an overload of worms. From what I understand, anemia takes a long time to get over... My little Chunk, started with a small lump under her jaw that would go away, then come back by evening. It now seems like it has gotten worse. It's not going away, she's waking up with it, and I'm getting worried. She has kind of distanced herself from the herd, (still browses in the pasture), she doesn't seem to be losing weight (still in pretty good condition since she kidded her twins 5 wks ago), her hair doesn't seem any rougher than normal winter coats go... I guess another thing that might contribute to this, is that around the same time that this came up, we sold her partner in crime, so I think she may be partially depressed from that also.

We have loose minerals available all the time free choice and they have a bale of hay out all the time (but seems like they have been choosing to browse lately, I'm assuming because it's been greening up a little out there)

Here's what we have done, if anyone has any suggestions PLEASE let me know. I don't want to lose her, she's my baby.
- We have begun feeding her as much alfalfa as she will eat, morning and night (browse all day)
- We wormed her with Safeguard (double dose) a week ago, and then Ivermec (oral) yesterday
- Have been giving her B12 daily since Thursday when we found the first lump
- Pig iron 100 (Duracet) 2cc on Thursday, Saturday, will again on Monday and then again Wednesday, then plan to once a week after that

The only other thing I have read to do is give her Red Cell. But from what I'm reading it seems like that is a last resort, if the goat is on their death bed type thing, is that true? Also, that Red Cell doesn't help the goat BUILD Red Cells, it only gives them a spurt of it at the time, and the Iron is supposed to help her build Red Cells... Any ideas? I saw Southern's thread about anemia a while ago, but I don't see if there is anything else I should be doing. I'm just worried because the lump seems to be getting bigger.

 

[Tiss]

I did exactly what you're doing for my doe who had bottle jaw last summer. I did not use red cell. My doe recovered just fine. I would worm your girl again with Ivomec after 10 days.

 

[Southern by choice]

Sounds like you are doing all you can, I do think it would be a good idea to run this by your vet and see if there is anything else he/she suggests.

If she has flukes the ivermec won't do anything. The ivermec plus is what I'd be using. Just in case it is flukes.

Sea kelp is great for building up iron and a great nutritional source, it can be added to loose minerals.
She needs some probiotics with being it hard with the de-wormers.

Here is a recipe for "oatmeal balls"
cook up 2 cups (dry) oatmeal, add 2Tbl molasses, add 1/2-1 Tbl kelp. It should be thick before you add the other ingredients to it, roll them up into balls, give a few 2x daily for several days. We store in the fridge but warm it up when we give it.
You can add the probio's too but I would give the probios through a syringe orally (mixed into water) for now.

If your goat has never had molasses or sweet feed then she probably won't eat it.

This is the kelp we use, it is in the equine section at SS. Sorry didn't have time to crop out the minerals. LOL

Also if the kids are 5 weeks I would be running a fecal to check their counts and also look for cocci.
Good luck.
Let us know how it goes with her.

 

[newbiekat]

Tiss- How long did it take for your girl to recover last year? Just so I have an idea of what I'm looking at for recovery time...

Southern- What are flukes? Should we worm with ivomec plus all the time and just forget the regular ivomec then?

Sea kelp... Thats a good idea I might see if I can find some. Thanks... What about the alfalfa, is that doing anything? Also we have rolled corn, and beet pulp, would either of those help?

How much Sea Kelp would you add to the minerals?

For the oatmeal balls, do I cook the oatmeal with the molasses or just mix them together in a bowl?

Thanks for the tip about running fecals. I will try to do that this week.

I will keep you guys posted! Thanks so much for your help!!

 

[M.L. McKnight]

I've used that Manna Pro Mineral that 'Southern by Choice' had pictured, it works pretty well. I've also used a probiotic powder that you can find at any COOP or Tractor Supply.
I would take this goat out at feeding time and put 1/3 to 1/2 can of cheap snuff tobacco in her feed. In my opinion that is the BEST wormer you can buy!

That would probably do the trick and in a few weeks she'd look like her old self, if she starts getting thin I'd give her an oral drench of Cydectin to dispose of any gut worms she might have.

 

[taylorm17]

All sounds like good suggestions. I also use the goat minerals Southern has posted above and our goats are doing very well as of now no jinxing myself. haha. Hope she gets better.

 

[Southern by choice]

There are different kinds of flukes but flukes attached themselves and cause severe anemia. Snails are the intermediary host. If you have snails you have a high probability of flukes. Some flukes are difficult to identify under a microscope, although you can if you understand the size of the egg. Some flukes are easily identifiable.
The sad thing about this is many vets will say "oh, your not in a fluke area". Flukes really are everywhere. I will see if I can find some links for you. I have them just need to find them- DH re-did my computer and I can't find anything.

Because of the bottle-jaw I would go with the hard stuff. Ivermectin plus is very good IMO. I know others use different products. I have no experience with any wormers other than ivermectin, ivermectin plus, and safeguard. For cocci I like toltrazuril. I am a less is best kinda person.

The kelp is a great source of iron, so is blackstrap molasses. This will help with anemia. To add to minerals 1 Tbl to 1 cup of minerals. We are extremely high in iron here... to the point of toxic levels so we can no longer add the sea-kelp but we will use it if there is a need... generally to a doe before kidding for a few days and again after kidding for a few days in the oatmeal ball recipe.

Cook the oatmeal up first, wait til it sets and thickens then add the molasses and kelp and probios.

She needs the probios for the gut.

We have never had bottlejaw but I know of a few people that have... from their experiences they saw a reduction within a few days. Sorry I am not much help here.

You may want to check out @elevan articles... she has a wealth of info and probably has something on bottlejaw. She wrote "Goatnotes". A great resource every goat owner should have on hand.

 

[Southern by choice]

Here is one link-

http://goat-link.com/content/view/152/#.Uy9gC_ldWt9

 

[newbiekat]

I have been using the golden blend minerals...

The sad thing about this is many vets will say "oh, your not in a fluke area".

Great... I dont have the best goat vet anyways, so that'll be a lovely conversation... I may just reworm her with ivo plus in 10 days if nothing has improved...

The kelp is a great source of iron, so is blackstrap molasses

Where can I find blackstrap molasses? I found regular molasses at Walmart... Will that do?

Tbl to 1 cup of minerals

Perfect. Thanks. I just ordered some from ValleyVet, my local farm store didnt have it

Cook the oatmeal up first, wait til it sets and thickens then add the molasses and kelp and probios

Awesome. Thank you! Once I get that order of Sea Kelp I will make those right away!

Thanks for the link! I will definitely check it out!

 

[Southern by choice]

Your welcome

and the regular molasses is what I would recommend because the kelp is high in iron. Blackstrap Molasses is very high in iron so I think that is too much all together. JMO

As far as treatment... if it is flukes the key factor here is giving the ivermec plus in 3 doses. Each 10 days apart. It will only kill off adult stage so it must be 3 doses.