Senile_Texas_Aggie
Herd Master
Yeah, to go see Miss @B&B Happy goats to get her splitter! Mr. @Bruce, you need a bit of Florida sunshine, don't you?
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Yeah, to go see Miss @B&B Happy goats to get her splitter! Mr. @Bruce, you need a bit of Florida sunshine, don't you?
B&B Happy goats
Herd Master
Come on down ya yankee, lol
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Bruce
Herd Master
I'll get right on that. I wonder who rents alpaca double pulling harnesses.
The splitter is a DR RapidFire electric. SUPPOSED to equal a 22 HP hydraulic splitter. DD said it didn't want to split anything that was taller than the wedge. Don't know about that but given all the time and effort it requires to take down a tree of any size that would be reasonable with a 16" bar chainsaw, limb it, cut to lengths and haul it to the splitter, I wouldn't even bother cutting down trees that small in diameter. Very little extra work to cut down a tree twice that size which would yield twice as much wood.
Yep, checked U-Haul, I can rent a truck for about $20. Not sure how many free miles but I'm sure it will cost well less than $100. Round trip is about 100 miles.
RollingAcres
Herd Master
And be sure to video that. We at BYH would really like to see the Alpacas at work.
RollingAcres
Herd Master
@Bruce sorry you are having a hard time with that new splitter.
greybeard
Herd Master
When the log hangs up, that is, stops moving farther into the wedge, exactly what is taking place?
I'll get right on that. I wonder who rents alpaca double pulling harnesses.
The splitter is a DR RapidFire electric. SUPPOSED to equal a 22 HP hydraulic splitter. DD said it didn't want to split anything that was taller than the wedge. Don't know about that but given all the time and effort it requires to take down a tree of any size that would be reasonable with a 16" bar chainsaw, limb it, cut to lengths and haul it to the splitter, I wouldn't even bother cutting down trees that small in diameter. Very little extra work to cut down a tree twice that size which would yield twice as much wood.
Yep, checked U-Haul, I can rent a truck for about $20. Not sure how many free miles but I'm sure it will cost well less than $100. Round trip is about 100 miles.
It's a pretty simple design that's been around for a long time by different manufacturers, and there are only a few possible reasons they would fail. (keeping in mind that even the best hydraulic splitter will find some wood it stalls out on.)
Possible causes are:
A.
1. Electric motor rotor stalls. (motor just stops turning but power is still going to it)
a. Usual cause of this is that the electric power to the motor is too low voltage...#1 cause is from extension cord too small or too long.
2. Power trips off to electric motor via thermal reset at the motor. ..again, #1 cause is from extension cord too small or too long.
In other words, a voltage drop. In order for the motor to be able to develop it's full rated hp, it has to be able to pull it's full rated amps, and as ohm's law stipulates that voltage (drop) is equal to amps X resistance, the longer the cord, or the smaller the diameter wire inside the ext cord, the more voltage drop you will have. (Voltage drop is measured/calculated while under load, not while running with no load)
B.
1. Belt slipping on elec motor pulley.
2. Elec motor pulley slipping on shaft--meaning the key is sheared or missing..
3. Flywheel pulley slipping on it's pinion shaft--meaning it's key is sheared or missing..
Unless the electric version is different from the gas powered version, the return is a simple spring return. The hand lever lowers the rack which disengages rack from pinion gear and the spring pulls the rack and push plate back away from wedge to it's rear most position.
The return hangs up under tension only because the rack cannot release from the pinion gear due to the friction between the pinion and rack gear teeth.
Different brand, same design with a gas Kohler engine but beginning at 4 minute mark, they do a good job explaining and showing how the rack/pinion splitters work, and their limitations. You do have to get used to quickly releasing it, before it jams up..The flywheel has to have a few revolutions to be able to develop the kinectic energy. You can't just keep pushing the handle expecting it to work like a hydraulic ram does. That, is a no go.
I grimaced watching Elliot carrying "mama's boy' log over to the splitter)
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Bruce
Herd Master
New 50' 10 gauge power cord. Power is a 20A breaker in a sub-panel in the barn workshop. New (professionally installed by licensed electrician) 70A feed from the main house panel in 2013. The wood was from a maple that was cut down 3 years ago, I blocked it a month ago and as noted, all but one piece had already been wedge split into halves or quarters so nothing taller than about 12".
Yes it is designed as you described. If the piece doesn't split, the ram often did not return unless I turned the motor off (pinion holding the rack) and there is a less than pleasant noise until the motor is turned off. The handle can't be moved back which SHOULD let the ram lift but it won't because of the pressure against the wood and the handle being in "force the rack down on the pinion" position. I think sometimes the ram must have lifted just a bit and the pinion was skipping in the rack but turning the motor off didn't allow the rack to retract. If I don't turn it off, the breaker on the machine trips. And if the ram does not return because it is locked up against the wood, it doesn't matter how many times I turn it off then back on. Then I have to pry the wood out. This:
at 15:23
No way I would put that much pressure on the table (and I have the same heavy duty table). He has the 34 HP equivalent model, though gas (22 HP is the largest electric model), I'm sure the extra 50% power helps him get through the larger pieces. His machine has 2 flywheels, mine has only one 55 lb. My pieces were getting stuck in the normal splitting orientation, not turned 90°. It was rare that I could retract the ram and try again. Generally speaking, the wedge was < 1" into the wood when the ram got stuck. Even then it took a good 5 minutes with the 3' crowbar to lift the wood up and off the wedge and ram so the rack could return. I was operating it as specified, you have to hold the handle forward or the ram will return. This is different than the one in your video. Unless, of course, the ram is held against the wood by the pinion, then the rack can not return. It would be most helpful if they had a "release the rack" feature.
Yes it is designed as you described. If the piece doesn't split, the ram often did not return unless I turned the motor off (pinion holding the rack) and there is a less than pleasant noise until the motor is turned off. The handle can't be moved back which SHOULD let the ram lift but it won't because of the pressure against the wood and the handle being in "force the rack down on the pinion" position. I think sometimes the ram must have lifted just a bit and the pinion was skipping in the rack but turning the motor off didn't allow the rack to retract. If I don't turn it off, the breaker on the machine trips. And if the ram does not return because it is locked up against the wood, it doesn't matter how many times I turn it off then back on. Then I have to pry the wood out. This:
No way I would put that much pressure on the table (and I have the same heavy duty table). He has the 34 HP equivalent model, though gas (22 HP is the largest electric model), I'm sure the extra 50% power helps him get through the larger pieces. His machine has 2 flywheels, mine has only one 55 lb. My pieces were getting stuck in the normal splitting orientation, not turned 90°. It was rare that I could retract the ram and try again. Generally speaking, the wedge was < 1" into the wood when the ram got stuck. Even then it took a good 5 minutes with the 3' crowbar to lift the wood up and off the wedge and ram so the rack could return. I was operating it as specified, you have to hold the handle forward or the ram will return. This is different than the one in your video. Unless, of course, the ram is held against the wood by the pinion, then the rack can not return. It would be most helpful if they had a "release the rack" feature.
greybeard
Herd Master
I did not realize your's only had a single flywheel.
I've watched quite a few videos of the DR and a few of other brands... mostly electric. All the electric ones I saw that had trouble, showed the unit pretty far from any building. Every one I saw that was in a garage or shop had no or very very few problems, and the few problems I saw of the units located inside, didn't include a complete shutdown of the machine, but just a quick reaction when the log didn't go thru as quickly as normal.
The one with the double flywheel would naturally have a larger electric motor. It takes more mechanical hp to get two flywheels rotating from a stop than it does one and requires more hp to keep them rotating. I had watched it earlier, if it's the one where he ends up using a chainsaw to free it up.
The one I remember as being most negative is this guy, and it does appear he is located a long way from an outlet....I can see what looks like a coiled up cord on the other side of his machine.
50' btw is a long way for developing full power in an electric motor, even for 10ga.
Being on an extension cord can make a LOT of difference.
Before I got my shop wired in with 240v, I ran my 110v 3/4hp table saw with a 50' extension cord from my back porch and I had to be very careful to keep the motor from stalling tho it was plugged into an outlet wired for and on a 20a breaker.
Once I got the shop wired properly, the tablesaw never gave me any more trouble and the current draw went back down to a respectable 6.5A instead of the 15 amps it was pulling on the extension cord. I never checked to see what my voltage drop was while running the saw off the extension cord, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were down around 80vac.
I've watched quite a few videos of the DR and a few of other brands... mostly electric. All the electric ones I saw that had trouble, showed the unit pretty far from any building. Every one I saw that was in a garage or shop had no or very very few problems, and the few problems I saw of the units located inside, didn't include a complete shutdown of the machine, but just a quick reaction when the log didn't go thru as quickly as normal.
The one with the double flywheel would naturally have a larger electric motor. It takes more mechanical hp to get two flywheels rotating from a stop than it does one and requires more hp to keep them rotating. I had watched it earlier, if it's the one where he ends up using a chainsaw to free it up.
The one I remember as being most negative is this guy, and it does appear he is located a long way from an outlet....I can see what looks like a coiled up cord on the other side of his machine.
Being on an extension cord can make a LOT of difference.
Before I got my shop wired in with 240v, I ran my 110v 3/4hp table saw with a 50' extension cord from my back porch and I had to be very careful to keep the motor from stalling tho it was plugged into an outlet wired for and on a 20a breaker.
Once I got the shop wired properly, the tablesaw never gave me any more trouble and the current draw went back down to a respectable 6.5A instead of the 15 amps it was pulling on the extension cord. I never checked to see what my voltage drop was while running the saw off the extension cord, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were down around 80vac.
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Bruce
Herd Master
Yep, just like that. Ram hits the wood and bounces off like a fly hitting a window. Yet I've run my 10 ton electric on a 100' 12g cord without trouble.
But I do know the "quality of the electricity" problem. When I first got the 10 ton in 2012 I was using it in the little barn with a 10' cord because that is where Al dumped all the wood and where it was stored. I had to cut some pieces down (too long) and or split them, total of about a run/year. I tripped the 15A breaker in the machine ALL the time.
So I started checking the power line. The idiot we bought this place from couldn't tell a silver screw from a brass one or the word black from white on an outlet. And who needs a ground? And he had used 14g wire, it was about 100', OK for the lights on the circuit (and incandescent bulbs don't care about ground or reverse polarity anyway), not so good for something that actually draws some amps. I found I could use a 100' extension cord plugged into the outlet by the workshop sub-panel (after I grounded it and swapped the hot and neutral wires). The electricians ran a 20A circuit from the main house panel to the little barn (a whopping 25' or so) in 2013 when they ran the 70A line to the workshop and I could then use the splitter in the little barn with a 10' cord.
BTW, the specs on the motor on the 10 ton splitter say it is a 1.8 kW motor which Google says equates to 2.4 HP.
The 22 ton has a .5 HP motor which equates to .37 kW. Something doesn't seem right there. But maybe they figure the flywheel is doing all the work so it doesn't need much power to get it spinning and the smaller splitter needs a bigger motor for the hydraulic pump. The gas 34 ton has two 75 pound flywheels and a 6 HP gas motor.
greybeard
Herd Master
Is it a straight elec over mechanical or is it elec over hydraulic?
HP is HP with some caveats. Hyd horsepower is calculated different than mechanical hp and electric hp is calculated different than both the former.
Hyd work is much better defined as force than as HP as a units of time is involved, as is flow.
The brake hp delivered to the pump is not 1:1 equal to the flow from the pump, but the difference can be made up in real time thru a larger piston or more efficient hydraulic motor, with a loss of the time factor.
What you can do with an electric/hyd unit in comparison to an electric/kinetic unit is mostly irrelevant except for getting advertising attention. They simply work too differently.
The DR splitter (and those that work like the DR) shouldn't really be advertised using the HP jargon at all. At best, torque should be the defining parameter or measurement.
And, something many people don't take into consideration or understand....Unlike the motor & pump of an electric powered hydraulic unit, the flywheel of a kinetic unit does NOT create one bit of power..none, zilch, nada. The flywheel can only store the energy created by the electric motor and it's small-to-large pulleys.
If I were going to try to troubleshoot your unit, (assuming nothing is slipping) I would begin by checking the real rpm of the electric motor vs the name plate stated full load rpm, then using my clamp on volt and amp meter, see what is going on with the electric supply AT the motor.
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