Buck services

[cmjust0]

Ya know in horses they do a live foal guarantee too. But in goats it is a little trickier. I used to guarantee live babies, but soon found out it is not possible to control how a doe is cared for during her pregnancy, or to even know if she has has a hard delivery prior to breeding. Scar tissue is a huge issue in does, and having a doe back every 18-23 days for a breeding only to discover she had lived with a couple of bucks for years, and never conceived, tends to sour a person. People get three tries with my bucks, after that, they pay another breeding fee and we try again. Since I instituted that policy I have not had a single doe fail to conceive.

See, there's the other problem with "driveway breedings" from the doe owner's standpoint... We can take our best educated guess at when a doe's in standing heat, but compared to a buck, we humans are rank amateurs.

Not to mention...it's entirely possible that a doe may just flat-out refuse to be driveway bred in 60-seconds after all the upset of being shipped.. You said yourself how routine is important, and how any change or move can stress them out...and it's true.

Moreover, if doe owners really used six as the magic number and tried to do *five* driveway breedings with all the associated guesswork...plus the subsequent "mulligan" breedings when we get it wrong... Well, my time's worth something, plus gasoline and mileage add up quickly.

Even if I knew for an absolute fact that the buck was clean...even if he was MY BUCK and I kept him on a piece of land I owned down the road or something...I still can't imagine the headache of all that watching and shipping and re-shipping and..

No thanks.

But, again, that's from the doe-owner's standpoint..

The magic 6 number is based upon the cost of a good buck, and feeding him for a year. It is usually cheaper, and easier on people starting out to go to that top buck, that one someone else has spent a fortune on showing and promoting, than it is to try to start from the bottom up. That winning buck makes your babies worth more money, and you didn't have to invest in the equipment and expense of promoting him.

That's why folks are bringing up the other option -- buying a buck just before breeding season, quarantining for 60-90 days, then either hand breeding or turning him out to breed at will, then sending him down the road to another small herd owner.

If you figure those few months on being even 1/2 the cost of keeping a buck for an entire year (which isn't likely), the magic number drops to 3 when viewed from the standpoint of cost alone..

If you factor in the opportunity cost of the things you could have been doing instead of confusedly watching your does round the clock for signs of standing heat, plus the driving, plus the actual cost of gasoline, plus the mileage on the car....the magic number just keeps dropping.

I'm not saying you're wrong, per se...I'm just saying that for some people who may only have even just two or three does and a hectic schedule with other responsibilities, it may make perfect sense to buy a buck and let him concentrate on breeding while you tend to the brazillion other things on your plate..

He's better at it anyway.


I also feel like it's fair to point out -- respectfully, of course -- that as someone who actually offers stud service for goats, it's not terribly surprising that you're in favor of it. I'd be shocked if you weren't!

I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin..

 

[cmjust0]

And not to open a whole 'nuther can of worms but this is seriously something I don't know - is there such a thing as line-breeding in goats like there is in horses, dogs, chickens, etc, etc...?

When it goes well, yep.

When it goes wrong, it's called inbreeding.



But, yeah, people do it. We don't, personally, but I know people who do.

 

[ksalvagno]

Some farms are very successful at line breeding. Personally, I don't know enough about genetics to do it right.

My plan for the next couple of years is to sell all offspring. So to keep the buck and use him again wouldn't be a problem (as long as I liked what I got )

 

[freemotion]

Well, all I need, really, is an animal with the correct plumbing and reasonable dairy lines in case I want to keep a doeling. I just want to milk my does for my own use.

I have no problem with someone having my buck for dinner after he has donated sperm. Really, it is unrealistic to think that every male goat that is produced will live a long and fulfilling life. Nor will every rooster. We aquired one cockerel to produce next years' chicks, and all the cockerels from this years batch will go into the freezer.



That is the viewpoint of someone who is not breeding purebreds or show animals, just someone who is looking to put super-high-quality food on her own table. Even those destined for the freezer will be loved and cared for while alive as if they were going to be kept forever. Doelings will be treated differently, much time will be spent handling them for future milking. My five-month-old has already been on the milking stand a few times and has had her feet, head, and udder handled from day one.

 

[kimmyh]

And not to open a whole 'nuther can of worms but this is seriously something I don't know - is there such a thing as line-breeding in goats like there is in horses, dogs, chickens, etc, etc...?

When it goes well, yep.

When it goes wrong, it's called inbreeding.



But, yeah, people do it. We don't, personally, but I know people who do.

In breeding is anything in the first generation, line breeding is beyond that point, thus my comment about buying 2 bucks. Buck 1 makes does, when they are ready they are bred to buck 2. Does from that union can then be bred to buck 1 and you can go on for quite a few years.

When you breed to an outside line it is like cooking dinner and throwing it against the wall. Some of it will stick, as will some of the good traits from both parents, BUT you will never have a line of goats that is consistently good unless you line breed.

 

[kimmyh]

I guess that is the point, it seems many on this board are interested in putting goat on the table, and not breeding registered goats. No harm no foul, but there is way more money in breeding stock, so that is where my head goes.

 

[freemotion]

And I may very well go there one day myself. But not now, just got my first dairy girl this past year, started on a search in my quest for real food. That includes meat, milk and dairy products, eggs, produce, fruit, and maybe maple syrup this winter. So my interests are different, so what is right for me is different from the next person.

 

[kimmyh]

Exactly.

 

[cmjust0]

When you breed to an outside line it is like cooking dinner and throwing it against the wall. Some of it will stick, as will some of the good traits from both parents, BUT you will never have a line of goats that is consistently good unless you line breed.

That's all well and good until some bad recessive genetic characteristic rears its ugly head one day and is discovered to be carried in many, many animals that have been line bred back to a common ancestor..

Then again, I'm actually a huge fan of outcrosses, regardless of whether or not they're able to be registered. They seem to be healthier and thriftier and...just more sound overall than a lot of the purebreds I've seen out there.

That's not just in goats, either..

 

[kimmyh]

cmjust0-very true, and line breeding is the best way to discover and remove traits that may be hidden. Once you have those taken care of, you have genetically superior animals.

Mixing breeds as you have mentioned does indeed bring hybrid vigor to the off spring. It also allows some breed specific faults/problems to cross to those new experimental breeds. It can be terrific, and it can be a heart breaker.