Calf getting enough?

[raeleigh26]

I've got an update on Maggie and dude. Maggie is a dexter, dude is jersey Angus cross, he's now 5 weeks old, still lively and looks good, however, she never did fully accept him. She licks and cares for him, unless he wants to nurse. So we're still going out and tying her ( with feed, 20%) and he's nursing 3x a day.
He's also eating hay and nibbling the same 20%pellets she's on.
But, the last couple of days he's acting like he's not getting enough, he's overly excited to nurse and only suckles each teat a couple of seconds, frantically switching from one to the next. (There are no health issues and she does have milk easily expressed, her teats are large and soft, so it's not a physical issue, but maybe a production issue)
I have not milked her since day 3 after she lost her calf, before we brought dude home, but in day 3 she was producing just under 2/3 gallon (I have no way to weigh it, so measured in gallon jar ) twice a day.
Should I be worried about his intake? Would it be best to dry her off and switch him to milk replacer? Or can I supplement our established routine with one or two of bottles of milk replacer each day? (Without upsetting his tummy? )

 

[WildRoseBeef]

I think it might be best if you switch him over (slowly, though) from Maggie to the bottle and dry her off. It sounds like she's drying up and the calf knows it, especially if he's realizing he can't get much milk from her like he used to.

I'm also wondering if it's nutritional, especially for Maggie. So you're feeding 20% crude protein pellets, what about other minerals like calcium and phosphorus and her energy intake? Are you feeding free-choice mineral, had your feed tested, etc? There could be other reasons (like she just doesn't feel the want to be producing milk for this calf anymore, even though she's been producing milk anyway for the last month or so even if she knows he's not hers), but these are from the top of my head. I'd love to hear what others think.

 

[raeleigh26]

She does have free choice mineral (I keep an average of 4 blocks around the loafing areas at all times, but the higher calcium and phosphorous blocks are only available to the cattle to keep the horses off them) she's on untested Bermuda hay, and gets a 1/4 lb alfalfa pellets along with her pellets.
I've read that dexters sometimes have production issues, sometimes dropping milk from a gallon or two a day to only a few cups or quarts a day, that doesn't seem to be the issue, and I'd think that if she even came near to 2 gallons a day or better (the dexter average) then the calf would be getting plenty, I'm thinking I need to milk her by hand and see just how much she's producing now, and go by that with my decision.
I've sold my jersey, but I'll be keeping the calf out of her and my dexter bull, so I'll have another bottle calf in a month or so that will be much smaller than this calf, I don't intend to breed Maggie back until late may, so I'd like to keep her in milk. Either for our use, or to feed the calves.
I'm not worried about labor intensive, but I'd like opinions about feeding one or both calves her expressed milk along with a milk replacer. Bad idea? More upset tummy issues?
I've also considered that since she must be tied to let the calf nurse, and dude already has a good start, that I'd move him to a bottle when my half dexter calf comes along, and give her milk to the younger calf.
But to keep her in milk until then, I'd need to keep milking her, but if he's not getting enough, I'd need to give him milk replacer, you see my conundrum?
Maybe just use her milk for us in the meantime?

 

[WildRoseBeef]

I don't think its more upset tummy issue than to get them to accept the bottle, especially the older calf. At least with Dude you can wean him in a month if you want, and keep going with the other calf. Hopefully Dude already knows what a bottle is.

The only way you'll get upset stomachs is if you're going to be feeding too much. Otherwise, you'll have to go the bottle route and if she continues to keep reducing production, dry her off.

 

[jhm47]

The fact that the heifer doesn't want the calf to suck tells me that there might be something else wrong. Usually the calves that I graft onto another cow are accepted within a week or so. Are you sure that the heifer is getting sufficient energy? I know you are giving her 20% feed, but how much? Also, the hay may not be of the high quality. A heifer needs a LOT of energy to produce a calf, nurse said calf, continue her own growth, and get ready to breed back. I'd supplement her with some nutrient dense, high energy grain like corn if she were mine. You also might want to examine her teats to see if they are injured or chapped. Also the calf might be super aggressive and hurting her as he sucks. If the cow is just drying off naturally and all of the above is normal, you might consider the fact that she's just naturally a poor milker, in which case I'd not keep her. My son-in-law has an Angus heifer that dried up prematurely 2 years ago. He decided to keep her for another round, and she did the same thing again this past summer. She's now residing at Mickey D's.

 

[raeleigh26]

Okay, here's what I noticed, calf nurses on maggies left side (all 4 teats ), she's done eating before he is, and dude was getting some snot.
So, I moved them to where he nurses on her right, he was treated for the snots, and I put stones in her feeder to slow her down, and in only one day, he's much more calm, and leaving her to go nibble his creep.
She doesn't have any problems, not chapped or cracked, and a milking first thing in the morning gave me just over a gallon, so I hope that's the end of the issue. Thank you all for humoring me in my paranoia!

 

[WildRoseBeef]

So how long has Maggie been in milk? Two, three months now? I agree with JHM that it could be a feed issue. If she's that long into her lactation period she is lacking in energy because it's at this time that a cow's nutritional requirements AND her lactation production is at its peak. But she's declining, you said she should be at the average of 2 gallons a day, but she's only at about half that and that's not a good sign. Protein isn't an energy source, and untested hay that could be also limiting in energy content is not going to help her with milk production.

Now, all that assuming you still want her to keep producing milk. If not then wean off the calf and start bottle feeding, but if so you'll have to look at getting her on some grain. Cracked corn will help, introduce it slowly over the next couple weeks or so to allow the bugs in her rumen to adjust. Since she's a part of a small herd it's probably not that easy for you to want to ship her just because she's a poor producer. So if anything you may have to buckle in and invest in some grain to keep her and improve her milk.

 

[raeleigh26]

 

[raeleigh26]

Hey I figured out how to upload pics!

 

[jhm47]

Calf looks pretty good to me, but the heifer appears to be quite thin. Kind of hard to tell in the pics, but her brisket looks pretty shrunken, and her back end looks emaciated. Wish we had a pic of her from the front and rear. Are her ribs showing? Can't tell in the pics.