CL :(

[newbiekat]

Thank you so much for your helpful knowledge... I've talked to my vet who said the best (and cheapest) option would be to send everything to Washington... She still doesn't think the CL and Johnne's test are worth it because of the false negatives with the Johnne's, and the CL because if a positive comes back that means they have been "exposed" and she doesn't find it as necessary to cull until it becomes clinical (I.E. Gingerbread)... I told her I would like them all done regardless. Should I be looking for another vet?

Haven't gotten the tests done yet, but we plan to soon... Once finances allow...

 

[OneFineAcre]

I don't think you necessarily should change vets. She gave you her opinion. But, you get to make the decision.

 

[Southern by choice]

I posted this somewhere else but can't remember where... testing has it's limitations for sure but it is the best that is out there right now.
Titer levels are good to know when dealing with CL. It is a very difficult decision on so many levels. One of the vets at UC Davis had done a study on CL in sheep... when the sheep were examined (after euthanasia) 3% of the sheep with titers of 16(which is low and not usually associated with internal CL) had internal CL. No external indicators. It may have only been 3% BUT that is 3% had INTERNAL CL. Those 3% if kept long enough had the potential to infect an entire herd.
8 is considered negative
16 anything from here up is considered positive
32
64
128 here up is considered to be consistent with Internal CL
256

I agree with OFA. Out of our 3 vets they all have different opinions on CL, and testing in general. All 3 are great vets each with their own philosophy and strengths. It is up to you to look at the info, educate yourself as best you can and go with the decision that best benefits you and your farm.
Like many things in life and dealing with your farm you may make one decision now and over time change that decision based on need or experience.

Wish you well in your decision.

 

[newbiekat]

Thank you very much for you input... Both of you...

Like I said earlier, I do plan on testing regardless of what the vet says, but how do I determine to cull? I know it's a personal choice, but I don't know much about either disease. The vet says CL is not dangerous unless the abscess bursts and it's nothing to be afraid of until it gets to that point, others say when they test positive they have to go. Same with Johnne's, vet says don't worry until its clinical. Is it just personal preference for determining when to cull?

 

[OneFineAcre]

I do not know the answers to that. Fortunately, all we've dealt with is the one false positive for Johnne's. I recall our vet said that if she was truly positive we would want to have her put down. I don't know what I would have ended up doing if it had turned out differently.

I've seen some posters on here indicate that they don't think that CL is that big a deal, it can be managed. But, again I don't know what I would do.

Good luck.

 

[Southern by choice]

I would be asking the vet what exactly they mean by clinical.
If the vet is suggesting that clinical is when there is a visible external lump then what would be the "clinical" signs of internal CL?

If you have Johnnes, showing positive through the actual fecal culture definitely cull but also now your land is exposed.
As far as CL test and find your results with titers... If you end up with one positive then I would cull that one, and continue testing yearly. Why risk a the whole herd because of one goat? If many test positive you could keep separate herds, a minimum of 5 ft between fencelines, practice bio-security and enjoy your goats.
There are many who keep CL positive goats with CL negative goats and don't worry about it.

Test first, then wait til you have a clear mind about your decision.

I know of someone whose goat had a titer of 16 (considered positive) she kept the goat and has had the goat for years, no other goats have shown positive, and the titers never went up. That is why these decisions are so difficult. Why 3% with titers of 16 were internal but obviously not hers?

 

[jodief100]

We have some goats with CL. The first ones I bought oh so many years ago had it and I didn't know any better. By the time I realized what we had we had too much invested to start over. So I did tons of research and consulted with my vet. We decided to immunize with Cas-Bac. It is not labeled for goats due to abscess problems but studies did show it was 80% effective in preventing CL. There is a vaccine labeled for goats available now, there wasn't at the time. Nothing can cure it. Vaccinating will give a positive test result if the goat has it or not.

Now, many years later, we still have a few CL positive goats. But the new cases are few and far between.

We raise meat goats and the meat goat industry has a different take on CL than the dairy goat industry. you need to do what is best for your herd and your family.

I read that sheep are much more prone to internal abscesses than goats. Just FYI.