Confused Calf- Neurological Issue?

[Jynuine]

Hi! So we had a little bullock day before yesterday. I got there just after she had him and he seemed great- mama was chewing on the placenta and baby wasn’t in distress. He got up and went to mama when I went to look and see his sex so they bonded beautifully.

Corinne was being a good mama and very concerned about him- being protective over the other cows getting too close for too long.

By yesterday morning I was concerned about him when I heard him calling out over and over. I haven’t really seen him latch onto mama and she looked as engorged as she did when she gave birth.

He seemed hunched over tail tucked and weaker. He was interested in nursing but couldn’t get a latch properly… so I got him some old colostrum (expired but unopened) replacer while my husband ran to the store to get some fresh so that he got something in him.

He happily took it down and seemed refreshed! Corrine doesn’t really let us handle her but I was able to milk her into the bottle a little as he attempted to nurse off one of her tits- I would angle it into his mouth with his rear facing mama so she could smell him since she was so confused what I was doing.

I would squirt some into the bottle but he would start moving away trying to find his food elsewhere and I had to stop because she would agitate figuring out it wasn’t him back there. He drank down an entire bottle when my husband got back and we gave him a vitamin drentch.

His tongue hangs out of his mouth a bit and he’s very sloppy with it on the bottle.

I’m not sure what’s going on but I suspect it’s neurological. I haven’t had to deal with this before with our cows- only the sheep, so I’m not sure how to milk Corrine since she’s not handleable unless his butt is right there.

I’m fine bottle feeding him if it comes down to that but we’re trying to avoid the milk replacer with soy since it tends to give them scours.

I figure we would just have to let her be with the milk but how would we handle that so she doesn’t get mastitis?

I’m including some footage I took.

 

[farmerjan]

I tried to reply to your thread about the calf going downhill fast. Finally found this thread.
Get the cow in a head catch and get the calf on her. It seems from this thread that he did not get a feeding of colostrum. Giving him a vitamin drench is only messing up his gut tract. They cannot use all that stuff right after birth like that.
Since it seems that it is not cocidiosis from this thread. You need to get her in and get her milked out. Get that into the calf. Store bought colostrum is not going to give him what he needs compared to hers.

Is this her first calf? I would suspect she doesn't "get it" yet and is not letting the calf nurse because she is too "concerned " about him. Pen her with him and get some of her milk in him.
Cows associate their calves with smell... if her milk is not going through his stomach, he is not going to smell right to her and she is not going to want to claim him.
I think you need to get her separated from the rest of the cows, and then have her concentrate on just him. If the birth took some time, the calf may have been O2 deprived and a tongue hanging out is a sign... usually they will get going better after a few days.

 

[Mini Horses]

Listen and do as she says.....waaaay more yrs of experience than any vet. . You have a chance to act fast and save this calf. We're rooting for you. Keep us updated and hoping for some good luck.

 

[Jynuine]

I tried to reply to your thread about the calf going downhill fast. Finally found this thread.
Get the cow in a head catch and get the calf on her. It seems from this thread that he did not get a feeding of colostrum. Giving him a vitamin drench is only messing up his gut tract. They cannot use all that stuff right after birth like that.
Since it seems that it is not cocidiosis from this thread. You need to get her in and get her milked out. Get that into the calf. Store bought colostrum is not going to give him what he needs compared to hers.

Is this her first calf? I would suspect she doesn't "get it" yet and is not letting the calf nurse because she is too "concerned " about him. Pen her with him and get some of her milk in him.
Cows associate their calves with smell... if her milk is not going through his stomach, he is not going to smell right to her and she is not going to want to claim him.
I think you need to get her separated from the rest of the cows, and then have her concentrate on just him. If the birth took some time, the calf may have been O2 deprived and a tongue hanging out is a sign... usually they will get going better after a few days.

So, he was following her around and interested in nursing but couldn’t keep a suction. I haven’t hardly been able to get anything down him today and I fear he’s dying fast.

He had blood in his stool this morning and was weak- I moved him to the stall but he refuses to take any fluids. My husband tried to tube him to no avail and gave him a shot of liquamycin - but his eyes are bulging and I cannot get anything in him. He can’t stand.

I feel horrible but this just may be what it is. I cannot tell if he got any colostrum the first day because I didn’t see him nurse successfully.

And this is her second calf. Her first calf was able to kneel down to nurse but this guy hasn’t done that at all.

 

[Jynuine]

I tried to reply to your thread about the calf going downhill fast. Finally found this thread.
Get the cow in a head catch and get the calf on her. It seems from this thread that he did not get a feeding of colostrum. Giving him a vitamin drench is only messing up his gut tract. They cannot use all that stuff right after birth like that.
Since it seems that it is not cocidiosis from this thread. You need to get her in and get her milked out. Get that into the calf. Store bought colostrum is not going to give him what he needs compared to hers.

Is this her first calf? I would suspect she doesn't "get it" yet and is not letting the calf nurse because she is too "concerned " about him. Pen her with him and get some of her milk in him.
Cows associate their calves with smell... if her milk is not going through his stomach, he is not going to smell right to her and she is not going to want to claim him.
I think you need to get her separated from the rest of the cows, and then have her concentrate on just him. If the birth took some time, the calf may have been O2 deprived and a tongue hanging out is a sign... usually they will get going better after a few days.

I would like to add that- this is all way worse than I imagined. We’ve entered into a black hole we didn’t know existed here and it’s pretty scary.

Apparently the FDA has halted all livestock feed with antibiotics and you have to get a vet prescription to get any at all as of 2 years ago. On top of that, talking with some of the other farmers out here today trying to find anything they said that all the vets have been driven out.

There is literally no livestock vets within hours of here any longer where there used to be a lot! Farmers are absolutely furious. My husband was “smuggled” a few bottles but there’s a lot going on we never knew was happening…

 

[farmerjan]

The national VFD veterinary feed directive was announced for over a year prior to it being put into effect... and most all the extension services had meetings and all that to explain it; and farmers were encouraged to establish a relationship with a local vet so that getting antibiotics was not a big deal if the vet knew your farm and operation. YEP, the vets here hate it... and it is more work... and it does require them to make a trip or 2 to the farm which does put money in their pocket but it is a PITA for most of the vets.
I have heard from some friends in Ca. that the vet situation is dire and because of all the do-gooder idiots, that even having animals is getting to be very difficult.
Livestock feed with anti-biotics was stopped even before the VFD went into effect. If the vet writes a prescription, antibiotics can be added to feed made in a mill... or the vet can prescribe it for a farmer to get to add to his own feed that he has grown or mixed on the farm.
This was to stop the use of antibiotics by people that would just give it willy nilly because they thought the animal needed it... without even knowing what was wrong with the animals. So much was being used that it was affecting the effectiveness of antibiotics that could be used in human cases... That is what most of this stemmed from... overuse by livestock operations as a "preventative" rather than to use as a treatment...both big and small family sized operations; therefore rendering the antibiotic ineffective when it was really needed because the "bugs" it was designed to kill had become immune to it... just as many cases of wormers are now ineffective due to constant and overuse.
There are states that were not as strict on the antibiotic issue...and the west coast was one place they went whole hog into the refusing to allow any to be sold.... BECAUSE it was due to be phased in and they just took it upon themselves to put it into effect all at once... however in June 2023, most all antibiotics over the counter will be prohibited EVERYWHERE and will have to be by vet authorization.
This is hurting the larger farmers that work with vets, but know enough that they don't need a vet to run to the farm everytime something gets sick and could go on and treat their own animals.
The costs associated with large animal vets having to make farm calls or requiring a farmer to come in to the office are going to continue to go up. The amount of paperwork it is causing will make all the costs go up. Add to that the costs of fuel/transportation & etc, and it is prohibitive for vets to practice.

Because of all the green new deal/animal rights activists, and the vegetarians and all those groups, and the ones that have no clue as to the workings of the climate and the part animals play in it, you are facing some real disasterous times out there. You need to stay involved with your local ag extension office so you at least can keep up on the current animal/ag rules and regs. At least here in the east where I am, and in many/most of the midwestern and southern states where ag is a big part of the states income, we have legislators trying to look out for our welfare. No one lives in a cocoon anymore... and you HAVE to stay up on these laws.

I will ask one thing about your introduction... why do you have 5 bulls and 3 cows and 1 yearling???? Why is the ratio of male to female so far extreme???? There is no reason why you should not have put the cow AND the calf into a smaller pen/stall together to try to give the calf a chance to "get caught up" with the cow. If you are going to have animals you need to have a way to also restrain them so they can be handled and treated. Vets here will refuse to treat an animal if it cannot be restrained... because they don't need to get hurt by an animal that is pi$$ed off, or hurt, or has a major problem. Know of a couple of vets in the last 6 months that have had a leg, a hip and a shoulder/arm badly broken or injured. There goes their ability to do their job... and one was because the facilities were terrible... one other was that the cow just caught him wrong with a foot... it is dangerous enough.

If the cow won't take care of the calf she needs to be hamburger. That is what they are supposed to do... reproduce and provide you with sustenance...if they are not a total pet, then they are not doing their job. But again, you have to do your part to give them a little help if needed. You are their care-taker.... Non-caring or non-mothering types, and ones that have an udder that is not easily accessed by a calf should be culled out.
I have been a small time (size) animal owner, have worked with large operations, and we now have a good sized cow/calf operation but I keep a few nurse cows to raise extra calves on. Still a small time mindset but applied to a larger operation.
Get on your extension services newsletter... find a group that has animals in your area and at least keep up with what is going on.
It is too late to get outraged over these regulations... They are a done deal. And alot of it was because people did not get involved and then it got put through the back door....

I like my solitude and quiet... I do not live in the 17 or 1800's where you could just do your own thing and no one would bother you... today everyone has an opinion and the ones that try to just stay away from all that, get run over by the majority that don't have an idea of the practicalities of day to day farming and live in the walt disney world of Bambi..... and they regulate like that. At the very least, every one in the ag industry needs to stay informed of what is going on....whether you have 2 pet goats or 100 head of cattle or 5 backyard laying hens or a 20,000 broiler house. The commercial farmers are very much interested in the welfare of their animals or they won't make any money and go out of business. They aren't all uncaring bad guys... and yes there are plenty of them. But I have seen more neglect and "kill 'em with kindness" idiots with only a couple of animals... THEY ARE ANIMALS, not one of your kids....Love 'em, treat them with all the love and kindness... but understand them and their unique needs as an animal.

Do you know that a year or 2 ago they were trying to pass a bill in Colorado that made it a felony offense for any type of anal or vaginal penetration of an animal... OKAY sounds good for the weirdo that wants to have sex with a sheep.... but what about AI for cattle so a small herd owner does not have to deal with a bull and someone maybe getting hurt... what about helping a cow or a sheep to give birth where you have to go in and turn the calf or separate a pair of lambs that are all tangled feet????? That all fell UNDER these proposed rules.... because someone who doesn't have the slightest idea of practical day to day farming, got on their soap box and said this is absolutely degrading and we have to STOP all these things....
This is what people need to stay abreast of... so it can be fought before it gets passed into a law that no one saw coming.

Sorry, I will get off my soap box... but you need to get informed so you can at least understand and know the laws if not to go and try to fight them before they become laws.