Considering a calf...need a refresher...

goodhors

Overrun with beasties
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
863
Reaction score
18
Points
79
I don't recommend a bottle calf because of the stuff you have already said. You will bond with it during those daily feedings, which go on to 60-90 days when you wean it. Just too much "together time" and calf KNOWS you are bringing milk, thinks you are mom! I would not recommend feeding goat milk if you ignore me, you need calf milk replacer. Calves have different nutrition needs than baby goats, so milk replacers are made differently. If you plan to eat it, you want a different relationship with your calves than being mom provides, more distance. Buying weaners at 3-5 months old gives you calves with a good start from their mom, less time needed from you with no milk replacer feedings.

When we did the "new" species thing, we read up on it first. Perhaps you should purchase a couple books on cattle and read them. Keep in mind they ALWAYS seem to start with the bad things, lists of diseases, problems, until you wonder how the species can survive at all! Then they move on to more normal stuff, daily handling issues, getting a routine going with "name your animal" the book is covering.

Have to say we were quite worried with lamb purchases, thought they would fall over if you looked at them wrong. Surprise! They lived and THRIVED with almost no extra work for me!! I was a bit more knowledgable with the calves, but it was the same thing. Book scares you, but in real life, the calves and heifer did just fine with no issues needing to be dealt with. I make sure that animal is not stressed, has good food and water. Try to not do many NEW, SCARY things at one time, so animal can relax before learning another new thing. I try to let animals run about in pasture, see things going on, to dull the startle reflexes! Grooming, leading, tying calves helps them calm down with people. Practice leading and load in the trailer, give some feed reward. Keep everything calm, low-key, stress is reduced. Stressed animals get sick easier, have "issues". Unhandled cattle do need roping and fighting to get where you want them to go. Trained, handled animals are easy to work with. All the family should take turns doing stuff with calves, so they are not "one-person" cattle. Cattle can be weird about that, LOVE their routine and hate changes, so routine should be multiple handlers, no one is a stranger to cattle.

In my area, I vaccinate for tetnus, pinkeye, and give a multi-way shot from TSC. The multi-way covers 10 virus/illnesses. Each of these need to be given twice with correct time spacing, to make animals immune to the diseases. Second shot given too late is not going to create immunity needed, you just wasted your money. We give shots one kind-at-a-time, so there is not a reaction from getting many meds at once. So for a few weeks, the calves get a shot-a-week as we work thru the vaccines. So far cattle have had no reactions except a lump at shot site that goes away quickly. I would consider giving a Rabies shot if I would own the animal for a while, had Rabies problem in the area or lots of vermin on the farm that can be carriers. My horses are Rabies vaccinated, skunks after feed seem to be the carriers around here. Several cases of horse Rabies each year, so worth vaccinating for.

You probably should get in contact with your local Extension service, find out what information you can get from them on Cattle, feed rations, handling, vaccinations recommended in your area. Extension is the specialist for your location, does the 4-H, presents any cattle studies done at the Ag College to help local folks. Blackleg is a problem in other places, but not here. Local conditions require vaccinations for YOUR local problems. Same with feed, hay or grasses grown there. I may never encounter your kind of hay, don't know what the feed values are to cattle there.

Calves sound like a nice animal project. Hope you can distance yourself a bit from them. Unfortunately, when you own livestock, sometimes there are also dead stock. But more are healthy, grow well, than you lose. If they are not right to begin with, usually you can't save them no matter what you try. You learn as you go. I am not a goat person, they would drive me crazy. Sheep and lambs, Cows and calves, horses are not a big deal for me to deal with. They need to be warm and dry part of the day, have clean stalls and water. Decent hay with a bit of grain. The more you baby them, the more problems pop up, so less digging for minutae in care helps reduce my stress. Fly bite or small scrape? Vasaline works on all 3 species, don't need a bandage or stalling. This type care seems to work pretty well for us. They survive well, are in good health, appearance, and this IN SPITE of the dire warnings of all that can go wrong in the books about them!
 

GrowURown

Ridin' The Range
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
231
Reaction score
0
Points
64
Location
East Texas
Well...we committed tonight...found a nice HEALTHY FAST MOVING bright clear eyed and nosed raised on the mama now eating on her own lowline cow calf...what I felt was a good price, out of an apparently healthy small herd (to the eye, they looked healthy, good weight, no limps or lumps or crusty spots anywhere...shiny healthy fat cattle)...like I said, not fancy, but everyone was healthy, got a GOOD run myself in their pasture and had plenty of time to inspect their cow poos too!

Get this...I called on a calf, went to look, caught her up, checked her out, she was perfect...EXCEPT...the man was not a good judge of SIZE at all...he had said she was about 60-80 lbs...this should have EASILY fit in my VERY LARGE "goat crate"....here's the except...ready...EXCEPT she is closer to 150lbs! THAT IS TOO BIG for my nigerian dwarf adult goat transport crate.... So I left, went home for the horse trailer as they don't live far at all and when I got back, well, aforementioned calf KNEW what was up...she could see her destination this evening would NOT be with her mama later for a late night stroll and she took off...

IT TOOK AN HOUR TO CATCH HER...and we finally got her in the middle of the pond...swimming for life away from us in circles 'round the thing...his son finally swum in and made her come out...at which point she loaded right in the trailer...BLESS THE LORD! I am TOO old and fat to chase down cows...of course now she gets to spend a few days on trailer lock down until she knows us and such...plus I think she will have a vet visit for a round of vaccination/check up and get more info and booster shots to have at home in the next day or two (our vets REALLY good abotu sending us home with what we need and clear instructions, and I trust them WAY more in the cow/horse department - they just do more cow and horse work really)...it's like a mini horse in a 4 horse trailer, Kobe beef barely lives better...and then straight to a stall and small turn out for her until she is over the initial capture...she REALLY wanted to stay there....REALLY...I mean REALLY....not even baby goats fight THAT hard to stay with their mamas! (Of course, I am sure our GIANT Cookie Monster Blue trailer rolling into her pasture did NOTHING to calm her little calf nerves...that thing scares me with it's sheer volume of U G L Y as I see it rolling down the road!)

So tonight we gave her fresh water, and hay...holding off on feed from a bag for now...just water and hay...and I am sleeping soundly because after that workout I don't have any other option. NOW I remember why I like cows more than goats...THEY MAKE ME WAY TOO TIRED TO WORRY! Sooooooo.....IF we haven't stressed her out to the point of a heart attack yet, and she makes it through the night, then I will be pleased and if not....well...I hope she does okay...she actually is pretty sweet natured and docile, I think she had seen other "siblings" carted off and knew the drill...and she ain't dumb that's for sure...

Also, I have come to the conclusion that my biggest loss is the vaccines and meds....never really needed all that before at any point, so I am lost with it because I just haven't had to do too much of it...dad vaccinated, I just helped...not to many experiences with sick or ailing cows...so we MUST have done SOMETHING right...right? Though it is good to know, and I am sure I will learn, I am glad in a sense not to know too much....see what I mean?

And YES...even after an hours jog through a 10 acre field or bigger...CALVES ARE EASIER THAN GOATS! First night home our goats turned their noses up at water from our tap....this little cow calf had a sip right away...so MUCH less snobbier than a goat for sure! And hay...she LOVES the hay...I still have to convince the goats they are meant to eat that stuff and not play in it! Yup...I'm in cow heaven right now...let's see what tomorrow brings shall we? Perhaps some nice bonding time?

OH! and good natured...did I mention? Because I remember almost every steer calf I EVER met tried to kick me within seconds....I haven't been kicked yet...it's coming, I bet it is...but just not yet...and that is a FIRST! OH OH OH! and POLLED AND A GIRL! You know what this means? NO BANDER, NO HORNS!!!!! WOO ME!!!!! I LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that I let fate and kharma and whatever else lead me to this one JUST based on that alone!

Can you tell....a cow is like Christmas in July to me...some men want a harley...I'm just content with a cow and to do the things in life I had before I went into the military...I left all this behind for 8 years and had a hard time getting back into it...especially after my dad passed...it's hard doing farm stuff without his guidance...and I worry like my mother did...crazy huh? But things are coming back to me now, slowly but surely, little tips and tricks and such dad used, probably nothing modern day normal...

But take for example something as common as raisin bread...yes folks, raisin bread, great for toast...for all I know it may be the silent cattle killer, but RAISEN BREAD was how dad won their hearts and trust...small little nibles here and there as a reward and they LOVED it...hadn't thought of that in years until we got home tonight and I saw a loaf in the freezer...guess what I have thawing? RAISEN BREAD! That may be her name...or BooBooCOW...because she booboo-ed on my boot after we loaded her into the trailer...

AND GUESS WHAT ELSE! (I swear after this no more typing, but ya'll will be proud of me...) She BUMPED HER HEAD AND GOT A TINY LITTLE CUT sometime between parking the trailer and when I gave her water and GUESS WHAT...I DID NOT FLIP OUT OR WORRY! it's TINY, MINOR, and our 7 year old spotted it first and guess what...I said "She'll be fine" and came inside....no worrying over an 1/8th inch scrape in the dark...just went on about my evening....like a calm grown man...nice huh? I thought so :)
 

GrowURown

Ridin' The Range
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
231
Reaction score
0
Points
64
Location
East Texas





Meet our new calf! It's daylight! I got a pic!

She's eating hay, appears to have had a drink of water already, and has had a nibble of cow feed (Purina receiving chow) FROM MY HAND and let me pet her nose and scratch her head a little...and now she is BELLOWING right outside my window like CRAZY! I call the vet in an hour to schedule an appointment for a initial visit...she's gonna hate that, but she's already in the trailer. If it ain't broke don't fix it, and that fits me fine.

Riddle me this...IF I decide she can live with the goats...CAN COWS HAVE ACCESS TO GOAT MINERALS? If not, we are gonna have to change the game plan slightly, but if they won't hurt her than she shall live with the goats once she has a clean bill of health....gonna see what tests we need run at the vet and just pay for it...no need to risk anyone else's health you know....


So...today's question (and I think a few after this) is going to be based on the goats SORT OF.....

CAN A COW HAVE ACCESS TO GOAT MINERALS? WHAT DISEASES SHOULD I HAVE THE VET TEST FOR THAT COWS CAN GIVE TO GOATS FOR MY OWN PEACE OF MIND?

(See now...not worrying about the little milkers...just keeping them safe preventatively....)
 

goodhors

Overrun with beasties
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
863
Reaction score
18
Points
79
Ask your questions of the Vet! They should be able to say if minerals are the same. I know sheep can't have copper, so they can't have horse or cow minerals. Goats I am not sure.

I don't know if they can share disease, but the Vet should know. AND the Vet is the expert with the letters behind their name, so they "KNOW" what they are talking about!! ha-ha

She looks quite the cute calf. Using the grain as treat, should get her friendly pretty fast. Put a halter on when you turn her loose, with a long rope dragging. Then you just walk her down and pick up the rope, reel her in for some grain, scratches, turn her loose again. Seems to tame them quickly.

Congrats on finding a calf with all the stuff you wanted. You might want her to have a friend, easier to keep them home if you have two bovines.
 

GrowURown

Ridin' The Range
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
231
Reaction score
0
Points
64
Location
East Texas
JUST CALLED THE VET :) They said come and pick up the vaccines, don't worry and didn't really know on the minerals...never had anyone ask before...all they give here for home freezer calves is black leg and cdt in case she should get cut she's already had her tetanus vaccine and blackleg, well, I remember the preaching on that...so yup...off I go in a while...

She's LOUD... ALL the neighbors have met her...my kids...STILL IN BED!!!!! Typical....now we have to find a halter that FITS her...can a cow wear a rope halter like a horse? Because I can just tie those myself, real nice, like the fancy Clinton Anderson ones (sat down one night and figured it out to avoid paying for anymore "fancy" rope halters....) If not I HAVE to have one nylon one round here in the tack that will work...

So, next question....would a rope halter work?
 

WildRoseBeef

Range nerd & bovine enthusiast
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,253
Reaction score
361
Points
313
Location
Alberta, Canada
Rope halters work better than a halter meant for a horse. Cattle have a different head structure than horses do, so a home-made rope halter is the best. See the article How to Make an Adjustable Rope Halter on how to make one. :)

Edit: Goats would need a block that also doesn't have copper in it. But cattle need copper as a part of their diet.

Edit 2: I'm really not surprised to hear that she's bellering like she is. This is all a part of the weaning process: she's just calling for her momma, but give her a few days to a week and she'll be nice and quiet. When we got our steers (the very last herd in 2007 before my dad passed away three years ago...), for the first week or so they would not stop bellering. And there were 80 or 90 of them, and I know that the neighbors a half a mile to a mile away could hear them! But they became nice and quiet after they got over their "homesickness" and didn't hear a peep out of them except at feeding time. :)
 

aggieterpkatie

The Shepherd
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,696
Reaction score
11
Points
156
WildRoseBeef said:
Goats would need a block that also doesn't have copper in it. But cattle need copper as a part of their diet.
Sheep can't handle copper, but goats need it just like cattle. :) I'm not sure what the difference between goat and cattle mineral is though.
 

WildRoseBeef

Range nerd & bovine enthusiast
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,253
Reaction score
361
Points
313
Location
Alberta, Canada
aggieterpkatie said:
WildRoseBeef said:
Goats would need a block that also doesn't have copper in it. But cattle need copper as a part of their diet.
Sheep can't handle copper, but goats need it just like cattle. :) I'm not sure what the difference between goat and cattle mineral is though.
Ahh, that I didn't know. Thanks for the correction. :)

From what I had been looking around at, there was somewhere where I read that if a body couldn't find any mineral that was specially formulated for goats, that giving them a mix that is meant for cattle or horses is good for them as well.
 

GrowURown

Ridin' The Range
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
231
Reaction score
0
Points
64
Location
East Texas
WildRoseBeef said:
Rope halters work better than a halter meant for a horse. Cattle have a different head structure than horses do, so a home-made rope halter is the best. See the article How to Make an Adjustable Rope Halter on how to make one. :)
That's what I meant, sorry, a cattle type halter...I still have all my stuff from when I was younger in a giant blue box...pig stuff, steer stuff and horse stuff...of course NONE of my old steer halters work because she is a LOWLINE and they were both MUCH bigger breeds...

But I can do some EXTRA handy stuff with rope and Horse halters are pretty hard to get the fiador knot just right on and I conquered THAT, so a halter for her...should be easy peasy!


Okay...just got back from the vet and in regards to the minerals she said: Cows and goats CAN share GOAT minerals....but they CANNOT share COW minerals....good to know...may still change the game plan...but if she is content with the goats for a while I would be okay with that!

And she gave me one shot of the blackleg vaccine and said since we are not showing or traveling farther than the processor and that won't be for a while that we are covered and need only to keep a cautious eye to worming IF need be...cool deal...so the cow can cohabitate with the goats WHEN we are ready. Her exact advice was this: "TOTALLY organic is major gamble in our climate, but relatively organic is not bad and the less we do the better the result with just a few homegrown calves, if you need anything just call" I figured so, I'm not going for organic, but we will be feeding it to the kids, so I do want to keep it semi-natural ya know? "Do what needs to be done and not excess" she told me....I like that

And the mooing...I KNEW it was coming, and now she's being pretty quiet...actually...when I walk up she's quiet and when I walk away a minute THEN she moos...so hopefully she is becoming at least a LITTLE attached to me...probably not, bet she hollers all night, but it's okay...


OH! AND GOODHORS! YOU are a CATTLE ENABLER I think....I mean, all things are content with another of their species and of course I MYSELF would be content with 2 cows...but I showed my wife what you said and she may go for a second small breed calf...maybe....or I may let her try a bottle calf at some point. There's a REALLY nice dairy not too far that actually takes pretty good care even of their bull calves, doesn't just dismiss them, etc...I have been told at the vet that THEY are good to go to for healthy young bottle calves with pretty good luck...they charge a little more than some of the auction babies you see being passed around, but on the flip side they tend to survive and thrive easily the doctor said...so MAYBE just MAYBE we can find her a companion shortly...I have a blessing on a second from the wife :)


Ahhhh...cattle, back in my element I think....no worries, it's just meat afterall...gotta keep that in mind...not forever long life, but short content healthy one!
 

goodhors

Overrun with beasties
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
863
Reaction score
18
Points
79
"OH! AND GOODHORS! YOU are a CATTLE ENABLER I think"

Hang my head, stand up, and admit it, "I am a cattle enabler!" Can't help it, they are SO CUTE!!
 
Top