Cow not growing well

[WildRoseBeef]

Okay. And the label says 1 to 1.5 lb per 100 lb body weight per day. Now if that calf is around 600 lbs, he should be getting around 6 to 9 lb of that supplement per day (I think about a coffee-can full or so, if I'm not too far off). Is the fellow feeding that much to him, or cutting him too short?

If he has a sensitive-enough weigh scale where he can weigh the can or pail then weigh the feed inside the pail, that will show him how much that pail/can holds, and how much less or more he'll need to feed.

A way to tell is to ask if he goes through one bag once every week (say 6 to 8 days). If he's going through a back once every two weeks, then there's the problem. Up the supplement (gradually, though, over a course of 5 days) and the calf will go through some compensatory growth for the first week or so. He may not get up to the size that he should be per his breeding, but he'll put on some weight. That winter hair coat hides a lot of his body condition, but the bull is still young and is still growing.

 

[NH homesteader]

I think he feeds him that much. He buys in bulk so not sure how long a barrel lasts him... I'll try to find out. Thanks!

 

[NH homesteader]

So out of curiosity, how does one go about handling a bull? Do you have to establish dominance like other animals? Is the head off limits like it is with bucks and rams? Oh the fun part is this bull has horns too... Oh even more dangerous. Ugh. Dumb guy.

 

[farmerjan]

You cannot establish "dominance" with a bull that will outweigh an average man by 5x to 8x. Respect has to be taught from a YOUNG age - like a baby calf size. Yes the head is off limits, NEVER get into a pushing/head butting contest. We have a big angus bull that weighs in the neighborhood of 16-1700 lbs that loves to have his ears scratched/rubbed. ALWAYS from the side of his head, never from the front. We have bulls that we can go out in the pasture with and call with a bucket and load right in the field, into the trailer. But we are never in the trailer in front of them. Any bull that any of the dairies keeps as a cleanup bull has a ring in their nose. The nose is very sensitive, and the ring will give some sembalance of control as they will not want it to get pulled on as it hurts. Therefore they will follow etc to the slightest pull or pressure. But it is done from a much younger age. One of my farmers' has all registered holsteins and they have been in the business for 60 years. They raise and sell 75% of their bull calves as bulls. EVERYONE has a ring in his nose, and they will not sell one that they have to be "wary" of. If he gets snorting or pawing or bellowing , at a human, they are hamburger....PERIOD. They are not pets, they have a purpose in life. The farmer respects their space, and does nothing that threatens the bull, and most bulls will show the same respect to a degree. You cannot reason with them, you have to be the boss, but it has to be started from a young age where they do not see the human as a threat nor as a buddy to play with. It's a fine line with an animal that can and would make mincemeat out of a human in very short order.
Horns make it twice as bad....has this guy ever had cattle before??? Does he even have a clue???? Thank god he doesn't live near me...that fence will not even begin to keep him in if he gets a "bug up his a** ", or the whiff of a female in heat. Electric fences are great, but there is no fence that will stop a bull if he really wants out. It only hurts once when he is going through it. Hope he never learns that.
Honestly, I would not encourage him to up the feed or anything that will help him to grow...maybe the owner will get to the point that he will think that it is not a good idea and sell him. Another thing, brown swiss take a long time to grow anyway, and they often will be a tougher meat than some of the other breeds so I wouldn't eat him either unless he's hamburger..by 2 yrs old.

 

[NH homesteader]

No he has never had Cattle before . actually before this year he had never had livestock before. Just chickens. He raised a couple of feeder pigs. Can't exactly compare that to a bull!

He pushes on his head to get him to move, etc. My husband told him rather forcefully he needs to stop that nonsense immediately. I told him with bucks and rams, you don't mess with the head. I figured bulls were the same. This guy is going to be seriously injured or someone else is. I told everyone I know if you ever drive by and the bull is in the road, don't stop and try to get him home. Drive faster!

 

[farmerjan]

No he has never had Cattle before . actually before this year he had never had livestock before. Just chickens. He raised a couple of feeder pigs. Can't exactly compare that to a bull!

He pushes on his head to get him to move, etc. My husband told him rather forcefully he needs to stop that nonsense immediately. I told him with bucks and rams, you don't mess with the head. I figured bulls were the same. This guy is going to be seriously injured or someone else is. I told everyone I know if you ever drive by and the bull is in the road, don't stop and try to get him home. Drive faster!

Call the state or local cops, let them deal with him as if he threatens them, they can and will shoot him. NO I DON'T want that to happen, it's not fair to the animal, but it is nearly to the point of no return....someone is going to get hurt and it could all be an innocent thing like the bull getting out and someone who doesn't have enough sense to know what to do, could get pushed around or hurt through no real bad intentions of the bull. The sad thing is, it is a downhill slope for him through no fault of his own. Is there any talking to the dairy where he got him from? Do you know the owner? Maybe they could just call this guy and "casually" asked how the calf turned out and did he have any problems with him when he was castrated and so on and so forth??? Know what I am trying to say? If the dairy owner is a decent guy, maybe he could try to "tell" this guy what an a*** he is in a nice way, that the "idea" of breeding him is just not a practical one....
I don't know what else to tell you. I am afraid that he is going to go in there one day and this pushy bull is going to hurt this clueless owner and no one will know until it is way too late...At only 5-600 lbs he is still 2-3x the size of the owner.

 

[NH homesteader]

Not to be cruel but I hope it's him that gets hurt and not someone else. No I don't know the dairy owners but I do know where they are located. They sold him as a day old calf I believe so I doubt they care all that much... But maybe. They show their Cattle I think. I'd have to look them up.

Someone told my husband there is a law in NH that you can't keep bulls out to pasture after the age of 2. I have no idea if that is true but might be helpful if it was!

There is one other guy we know who had inquired about breeding his cows to this bull. Sight unseen, and in a passing thought. So if we can get him to tell the guy it ain't gonna happen... Maybe that will do it.

Sheesh irresponsible wanna be farmers are irritating!

 

[farmerjan]

I would definitely check on the NH law on the bull...might be the ticket you need. Also, the guy that said in passing that he might be interested in breeding his cows to that bull....If you know him, and know what breed/kind of cows he has, you might want to tell him about the size of most BS calves at birth, and that they also are known to be very stubborn and hard to get started...If he has beef cattle breeding to a BS is only going backwards....Swiss do not finish very fast and they will get tough. If he has any dairy cows, he cannot use him on a jersey; and would only be good on a BIG holstein. I certainly wouldn't use a swiss on any of my dairy cows. The one farmer that I test for has both registered Swiss and reg Holsteins. Any swiss they have trouble getting settled they will breed holstein, and I got a heifer calf from them. Raised her up, bred her, as a 2 yr old she was bigger than any of my jersey hol cross cows; but we had to pull her calf, an angus, out of our easy calving bull, that weighed about 80 lbs. It had the frame of the swiss. It was not a good experience and finally lost her 6 months later to who knows what, vet couldn't figure out what was wrong. Swiss are not a breed for the inexperienced. They are perhaps the toughest dairy breed to deal with. They can be sweet cows, but they are stubborn and do things at their own pace on their own terms.
Unless we are raised on or with farming background, most "newby's are wanna be farmers. But most everyone I've ever talked to errs on the side of cautious or over-careful. Never have I heard of anyone so clueless as to think that he could buy a bull calf, raise it up and "maybe" use it for breeding when he has never even been on the "cow end" of a breeding operation.

Good Luck, and I am sorry to say but I agree; if anyone has to get hurt, I hope it is only the owner. He has no idea of what the H*** he is doing.

 

[NH homesteader]

Oh yes it is a whole new kind of clueless for sure! I will pass that along, I know the other guy and he has beef cows. He just doesn't keep a bull. They're gorgeous cows but certainly not big and tall like dairy cows!

I didn't grow up on a farm, my husband grew up on a horse farm. I research everything to death before I get a new animal though. I think it's great when people want to get into farming, it's the idiocy and lack of research that bothers me.

I'll let you know if we convince him! I'm hoping so, before he gets even bigger and stronger.

 

[Bossroo]

Inform the guy with the bull calf to read the fine print on his Home Owner / Ranch / or Errors and Omissions Insurance Policy. Better yet, have his lawyer read it and then give him his legal opinion. Most will have a clause stating that keeping a dangerous animal will automatically not pay any claim. A pit bull or any other breed deemed to be dangerous is one example of an exclusion. He could possibly loose the farm or ?